'You lie,' Obama told -- 'Not true:' Obama

And when all those "undocumented" aliens become lawful residents after the President's immigration "reform" initiative is passed, health care benefits will be available to all of those who are currently deemed "illegal" or "undocumented." This is a rather transparent war of words.

South Carolina should be ashamed for voting this man into office. Wilson called to apologize because he said he lost it when he didn't agree with Obama's statement. I guess he disagreed with the truth. There is a related post at http://iamsoannoyed.com/?page_id=588

Mark, there are other parts in the bills before Congress that in fact do cover illegals. But how does Obama know what is in any of the bills since he HASN"T READ any of the bills? In fact, most Congress people, especially those on the Dem side, HAVE NOT READ THE BILLS!
The Congressman shouldn't have breached protocol, but he was right in what he said. Obimbo is THE biggest lying sack of whatever that has ever resided in the White House.

Please forgive Joe...he thought he was at one of them SC pig pickins. Hell they usually yell worse to boys like Obama. I am sure the rest of them boys gonna rite in and tell ya what a true Merican ol' Joe is anyway. Respect? We don't need to give no stinkin respect...we're Mericans. Great Mericans too.......

If the President is correct that illegal aliens will not receive benefits, then what in the world have we accomplished? Illegals will continue to go to emergency rooms for their routine health care (they cannot be denied care) and we the American taxpayers will continue to pay the bill. This will do nothing to lower costs.

Republicans......proving Van Jones right one day at a time.

Wow...the GOP just lost the vote of every American of Hispanic heritage for oh the next 100 years. What a moron...

The republicans have a new a$$ clown hero....Joe the plumber can retire.

It's good that Wilson apologized almost immediately - but it would have been better if he'd admitted that he was wrong as well as rude.

For months now the Republicans have been keeping it classy, with characters at town hall meetings that reminded me of the disturbed person whose house you tried to not walk by when you were little. But this was just the icing on the cake! What a terrible reflection on the state of their party. They are not winning people over to their cause, quite the contrary.

As usual, Silva doesn't tell you the whole story. After Obama announced it was, "time to stop bickering", he proceeded to call Sarah Palin a liar- and got a standing ovation from the Democrats. 20 second later, Wilson called Obama a liar. Wilson apologized. Obama did not. By the way, if you want to see every Democrat get up and hoot, jeer and clap derisively at President Bush during his State of the Union speech in 2006, fast forward to 45.54 of the following video.
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2006/01/20060131-10.wm.v.html

Interesting. Obama had just received a standing ovation for calling other people liars before Wilson shouted. I figure he was tossing back the liar tag Obama had just applied. Watch the tape. It makes more sense.

Can you show me where in HR3200 is the part where citizenship will be checked? You know that such checks aren't allowed in "Sanctuary Cities" like Chicago.

South Carolina Representative Joe Wilson revealed a netherworld in the mulberry just outside the holly farm. Light continued to reverberate. He was detected making waves. He peaked shortly after midnight, followed by a decay that lasted several months. He later apologized. That's probably why his tongue felt hot. He unloaded the pallets, caressed the cargo billow, and ate all your orchid seedlings.

About time someone called him (Obama) out on this. But, in the end I think the dimocrats will work it into the bill.

OBAMA LIES
CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE CITES THREE IMMIGRATION LOOPHOLES IN HR3200
taken from Center for Immigration Studies

NO LIMITATION ON ACCESS
NO VERIFICATION SYSTEM
CARE EXTENDED TO "MIXED STATUS FAMILIES"

Open access to Insurance Exchange: HR 3200 contains no provisions preventing illegal immigrants from participating in the Health Insurance Exchange that is to be created, including the government-run "public plan" that will be available through the federally-run and federally-subsidized Exchange.

According to CRS: "Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."

No verification mechanism: Democrats point to language in the House bill that says illegal immigrants cannot get benefits. While that may be technically accurate, it is far from the truth.

The fact is that the statement is meaningless because the bill contains no verification mechanism to ensure that illegal immigrants do not receive benefits. Democrats defeated amendments in two congressional committees to close this loophole, including amendments that would use the very same verification mechanism that already exist in statute for other federal programs. Why not include the same verification mechanisms in this bill as already exist for other federal benefits programs? Without the requirement that there be a verification mechanism or a specific verification mechanism provided in statute, the Commissioner could determine that the eligibility requirements could be met either without verification or with as little as a signed attestation.

According to CRS: "Some have expressed concerns that since H.R. 3200 does not contain a mechanism to verify immigration status, the prohibitions on certain noncitizens (e.g, nonimmigrants and unauthorized aliens) receiving the credits may not be enforced. However, others note that under §142(a)(3) of the bill, it is the responsibility of the Health Choices Commissioner (Commissioner) to administer the "individual affordability credits under subtitle C of title II, including determination of eligibility for such credits."

Family eligibility for affordability credits: Section 242(a)(2) of the bill provides that "[e]xcept as the Commissioner may otherwise provide, members of the same family who are affordable credit eligible individuals shall be treated as a single affordable credit individual eligible for the applicable credit for such a family under this subtitle." This suggests that if one member of a family is legally eligible, every family member will be considered eligible. This is significant in terms of numbers — the Pew Hispanic Center estimated that there are almost two million families in the United States where illegal immigrant parents have U.S.-born children. That does not include other "mixed status families" - one legal parent, one illegal parent and illegal child, etc.

According to CRS: "There could be instances where some family members would meet the definition of an eligible individual for purposes of the credit, while other family members would not. For example, in a family consisting of a U.S. citizen married to an unauthorized alien and a U.S. citizen child, the U.S. citizen spouse and child could meet the criteria for being a credit-eligible individual, while the unauthorized alien spouse would not meet the criteria. H.R. 3200 does not expressly address how such a situation would be treated. Therefore, it appears that the Health Choices Commissioner would be responsible for determining how the credits would be administered in the case of mixed-status families."

In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. Compare that to how many will show up for free health care.

Who cares bring them into the fold.The U.S. needs the tax money seeing that illegal immigrants are the only ones with jobs. Thanks to all the patriots who want slave labor.

Well, the PRESIDENT did lie.

The Congressional Research Service, the "research arm" of the US Congress, issued a report titled "Treatment of Noncitizens in H. R. 3200.

It states, "H. R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitizens - whether leaglly or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently - participating in the Exchange.

H. R. 3200 establishes a Health Insurance Exchange which would provide individuals and small businesses with access to health care plans, including the "public option" to be managed by the government.

It also confirms that the House bill does not include a mechanism to prevent illegals from receiving "affordability credits" that would subsidize the purchase of private health insurance.

CRS specifically noted the absence "of a provision in the bill specifying the verification procedure."

An amendment offered by Rep. Dean Heller (R-Nev) would have applied the same eligibility verifications for coverage under H. R. 3200 that have been used for years to prove eligibility for Medicaid. The Democrats defeated it along a party-line vote.

That shows where the Democrats stand. H. R. 3200 says no federal funds can be used for illegals BUT there's no verification procedure required for these coverage options AND they refused to put it in.

Obama says he wants an honest debate, wants the games ended, yet plays the lying game.

And he wonders why people are angry?

PS--and what happened to his campaign promise that 'the negotiations will be televised on C-SPAN?

Oh yeah, it went out the window with 'the American people will be a part of the conversation and process.' When they tried to be, after Obama tried to quickly force a bill before the August break, a bill affecting every American and 1/6 of our economy, they were mocked.

This is the kind of goober (Wilson) the GOP would approve to speak to their children about how to behave in school - if you don't agree with the teacher: "CALL THEM NAMES"

benefits will be available to all of those who are currently deemed "illegal" or "undocumented." This is a rather transparent war of words.

Posted by: John W. | September 10, 2009 12:13 AM
---------------------------------------------------------
.

Johnny W Bircher,

It specifically says in the outline: DOES NOT COVER ILLEGAL ALIENS! Quit listening to the black helicopters in your head, you whack job.

Just like the batsh*t crazy Republican from South Carolina (Wilson) who was purposely disrespecting the president tonight, you are fear mongering!

So you fight immigration reform, if it's poised to do that, John. You don't kill this bill "just in case."

What else can we do other than offer this very specific provision prohibiting any funds from going toward illegal immigrants?

If that's all you're afraid of with the health care reform proposals, then we're in great shape, since this aspect is so obviously a distraction and a non-issue.

You are dead right, John W. Naturalizing and entitling millions of illegals is next on Obama's agenda.
It was terribly discourteous of Joe Wilson to shout out when he did, and it was the right thing for him to apologize, but maybe his shout will force discussion and force the Democrat leadership to admit that that's precisely what's going to happen.

Wingnut Joe Wilson is a reflection of the current state of mind of the Republicans: delusional and destructive. Their barbarism has been exposed and this underscores the importance of the nation's next priority: GET RID OF THE REPUBLICANS. They are nothing but servants of corporate America. In this case, this piece of *$##!! Wilson is an operative and servant of the health insurance industry trying to obstruct and derail the health care reform efforts. It's now a matter of principles and moral vs. greed and evi!. We, the people must prevail against the tyranny of corporate America. We must win!

WIlson needs to be censured immediately. What he did was inexcusable. this is not some schoolyard. He should have respect for the office of the President of the United States of America. And his apology was half-a*sed, too. He still asserted that Obama was lying about the policy with regard to illegal immigrants. Wilson is lying about what the current legislation says.

But hey what do you expect from South Carolina (Mark Sanford) these days?

It's jarring how disconnected Republicans have been from reality these past several weeks. Giddy at the prospect of President Obama failing, they've let their base lunatics run roughshod over civil American discourse, trying to kneecap health care reform. They're so high on themselves that one thought nothing of screaming, "Lie!" at the President of the United States as he was, ironically, in the middle of dispelling their lies.

In all, this is probably good news for Democrats. Give the Republicans one good month and they whip themselves into such a fervor that they think Americans want Bush-Cheney ideas back in control of Congress and the White House. This is just further proof that the GOP has not advanced a single step from the policies of George W. Bush and they haven't learned a single lesson from the huge deficits, incompetence and mismanagement Bush and a Republican-controlled Congress left in their wake.

They don't want change. They want a restoration of the Bush/Cheney era.

Thank you John W. for my nightly dose of xenophobia and topic evasion. Don't you realize you people have all but handed Obama health care reform with all this teabagger freak out stuff? Wilson just embodied the entire creepy month of August in one childish, WOEFULLY misinformed outburst. There's plenty to debate and disagree with in the proposed bills...but no: the far right, YET AGAIN, has to "go there" with the doomsday freak-out scenarios and blatant falsehoods. "Death Panels"? Seriously, how long was that gonna hold, even with the racists? The bigots and xenophobes left Obama smelling like a rose: an adult among high school kids throwing temper tantrums. I advise you all to turn off your Beck and Limbaugh and get back to using your brains so we can debate this thing like adults. Health care is about debt, not socialism or immigration. Take a step into the new century and contribute, or get left behind.

Words have meanings, and the law clearly does not offer health care benefits to illegal aliens. Joe Wilson is the model of the modern Republican: uninformed, foaming at the mouth – and yes, a liar.

He should have been escorted out immediately. People were escorted out of Bush speeches simply for the t-shirts they were wearing. Can you imagine Wilson's outrage had someone yelled "You lie!" in the middle of a Bush speech? GOP=hypocrisy.

Truth is a defense. There is no verification process for determining if someone is a citizen or not. CNN has commented on the contradictions:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/27/health.care.immigrants/

The net is if you are not going to check on citizenship, it matters not what the bill actually says. The language about illegals is merely a fig leaf with a large hole.

Rick

Rep. Joe Wilson seemed to have summed up The whole Speech.

When it comes to the health care issue that will affect every American, the press should be reporting on whether Obama did lie or not instead of focusing on the apology. And McCain should just get it done with and switch to the democrat side already.

Ah, yes. The right-wing paranoia lives on.

What is it with people from South Carolina? I think he protests too much so now I am suspicious he is hiding something (hmmm...an illegal love interest, nanny, gardener?).

From the look of the size of Wilson's belly, I don't think he'd pass the physical if he went to buy private health insurance on his own. He ought to be very happy you and I pay for his premium plan with BCBS.

For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my congress, because it feels like honesty is making a comeback.

The biggest (honest) complaint against Republicans today is that they are ‘spineless’, but Rep. Wilson altered that today.

Why would anyone ask Representative Wilson to apologize for demanding honesty in Congress? – That would be just as bad as Obama and the Clintons apologizing for America to tin-pot dictators like Kim Jong Il, Castro, and Ahmadinajad.

The highest standard of ‘DECORUM’ for our congress is to demand TRUTH and INTEGRITY inside those hallowed halls. Without integrity, their decorum is just a sham that we’ve tolerated for decades. Differences of opinion are one thing, but outright lying is another and most Americans know the difference. I can forgive Ted Kennedy for his opinions about liberal causes, but not for his outright lies about Chappaquiddick.

President Obama has been telling outright lies frequently – as he was doing when Wilson just had enough and spoke up in defense of American values by identifying one of the lies the moment it was spoken. Let the rest of congress apologize for not standing up with Rep. Wilson!

Tell the president that the next time he wants to address Congress, he’ll have to be sworn in so we can hold him in contempt if he lies again!

Damn the decorum if there's no respect for integrity & truth. Let the liars show more respect for honesty before we ever consider apologizing for breaches of ‘decorum’.

It is not a breach of decorum to take a stand for everyone to be truthful in Congress. We need honesty in Congress. Congressional approval ratings are already scraping along below used car salesmen and ambulance chasers precisely because of the high tolerance for dishonesty permitted in Congress. We can begin to change this by thanking Wilson for his outburst.

Yes, outbreaks like this *have* happened before when the President addressed the joint session. Two that I know of - once during Bill Clinton's presidency when Republicans acted up, and again during the 2005 Bush State of the Union address when Democrats did the same. So this is nothing new.

And the "You Lie!" comment has merit when the lines requiring proof of residency/citizenship were removed/defeated in committee. HR3200 is only ONE of several healthcare bills making their way through the house and senate, and that's also part of the problem. Instead of one, there are many.

Okay John, just what is the President's immigration reform initiative? It is easy to criticize what you THINK the president will do, especially when you can't possibly know. Prove how his words are transparent.

Funny how the campaigning works in SC. This outburst may have actually put him over the top with voters there. What he really needs to apologize for is that suit and haircut.

John W , I'd like to ask you something, with out you getting all upset. This isn't an attack on you. Really. But I'm just curious as to whether Pat Buchanan's writings like I have listed below really reflect conservative thought on Immigration. You're obviously one of the most staunchly conservative guys here, and immigration does seem to be an important issue to you, so I would just be interested to see if the tone of the articles and quotes listed below actually resonate with conservatives or not.

http://buchanan.org/blog/did-hitler-want-war-2068
http://www.theamericancause.org/120407.htm

http://www.theamericancause.org/print/052207.htm

http://www.theamericancause.org/print/082506_print.htm

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/buchanan_own_words/on_immigration

Opps, sorry, didn't mean to include the Hitler link. Different issue!

John W is like a lot of the GOP, they cling to their lies and hate instead of working for what they believe in. John if this is so important to you work to see that it's put into law? Name calling and twisted logic will get you no way.

"Undocumented," says Swamp? No, they ALL have documents. They are for sale practically anywhere. Even on the internet. And some are very convincing. But Wilson is right. While illegals are barred, there's a loophole. There are NO provisions for checking a person's citizenship for public health care in the House bill. Will Obama insert one? Sure, and elephants will fly.

An absolute lie. Illegal aliens will continue to flood emergency rooms and medical clinics for "free" health care; which costs are passed on to the American taxpayer thru increased costs.

But the real threat to health care will be the eventual AMNESTY to illegal aliens once Obama gets his health care reform. Mark my words, this will be the next agenda.

What the Democrats and Obama are not tell you is that not only will current illegal aliens who get AMNESTY will be added to the health care plan, but a multiplier of at least 4 will be needed to be added to each illegal immigrant because their relatives south of the border will be eligible to immigrate into the US.

This will add an additional 50-70 million more low income, uneducated and unskilled people on the taxpayer funded health care plan.

Obama lied!

Well well, looks like T-Bagger Joe can't read either.

The illegals are getting treated now, in the emergency rooms all across America. It will continue post-reform.

Blame their employers.

Why the equation of illegals = no reform is a hard one to figure. We are not supposed to save ourselves from the private health insurance tsunami because some illegal somewhere may get treated?
The true fact is this; Post reform illegals will still get treated at emergency rooms. That's the action of the individual hospital's administration. The Federal law being proposed won't pay for it. Pretty simple.
So, cost shifting will continue, but on a much smaller scale. That's part of the solution; Bigger pool, less cost shifting.
I hope most are legalized. Bring them into the pool so they pay their bit. Also, bring them into SS. That way they can pay into it also, and as an added bonus won't be trying to steal my SSN.

The fringe regional Party from the south again shows why they are the fringe regional Party from the south.

Even the AP is noting Obama's lies.

"FACT CHECK: Obama uses iffy math on deficit pledge

By CALVIN WOODWARD and ERICA WERNER, Associated Press
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama used only-in-Washington accounting Wednesday when he promised to overhaul the nation's health care system without adding "one dime" to the deficit. By conventional arithmetic, Democratic plans would drive up the deficit by billions of dollars.

The president's speech to Congress contained a variety of oversimplifications and omissions in laying out what he wants to do about health insurance."

Read more, at news.yahoo.com. If you dare.

If the leader has possessed this kind of behavior, disrespect to the President of their country I can understand why the children and young generation of America are heading toward downhill. Mrs. Laura Bush said people must respect the President of the United State of America.

I've always thought the US would benefit from something similar to the U.K.'s questions for the Prime Minister. Thank you Rep. Wilson for giving us a sideways glimpse into that great tradition.

Meantime, Obama's constant lying, staggering arrogance, dangerous narcissism and astounding incompetence continue. Continuing with healthcare, Obama wants to put as much of the private economy under government control as possible to create his nanny state utopia where he is the boy king. Let's continue to stand strong against Obama in every way and get Congress out of the hands of the insane Pelosi and Reid in 2010. Obama is a smug, smirking con man. Nothing more

Illegals will be covered and not many people really trust anyone in Congress or the White House

Everyone is a fool.....we were all lied to by the Bush and Devil administration ON CONCRETE ISSUES; and because of their lies, we have lost so many of our sons, fathers and loved ones...this is why OUR American lives HAVE BEEN TURNED upside down...do you people want change or just MORE OF THE the same...I have never in my life read a bunch of foolish comments from a group of people who want a better live for themselves and future generations to come...YOU ARE ALL FOOLS!!

I just donated a chunk of cash to Wilson online. It's about time someone calls Obama a liar to his face and stops pretending this buffoon with a messiah complex is our savior. Obama is bad, bad news for America.

IT'S DISRESPECTFUL TO THE MAN WE VOTED AS PRESIDENT. He is TRYING HIS DAMNESS to resolve the crap Bush left us, and he said in his victory speech we will have highs and lows. We must support this man becuz he is trying to get us over the hump of GOP goof-ups. If we don't we all will continue to be up a shyte creek Republican Democrat Liberal, alien, legal, etc.

WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!!! STOP THE BICKERING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, that's what the bill says, but absent from the bill are any provisions to monitor and enforce that clause.

So, while illegal aliens should not receive Obamacare benefits, there is nothing in the bill that actually prevents them from doing so.

I guess it was ok in '05 when the Democrats did it to Bush, or don't you remember that silva? These Democrats are Hypocrites.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/10/flashback_democrats_boo_bush_at_2005_state_of_the_union.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/06/AR2005050601814.html

I love how the libs are getting their underwear in a snit over this. Pelosi called Bush a liar for 6 years, and at the 2005 State of the Union address, the dems booed Bush! I suppose the rules don't apply to liberals. As usual. As far as name calling, the libs have the monopoly on that one! Let's see...un-american, Nazi, angry old white people, teabaggers (I LOVE this one...shows how sick libs are), fringe that doesn't represent the majority of Americans (how wrong they are with that one). Liar isn't the worst thing Joe could have called Obama...at least it was truthful!

He may not be trying to lie but he is completely wrong about his statement.

It's funny that the shoe is on the other foot now. If President Bush made it through a speech without being called a liar or an idiot, I don't remember it. If the Democrats in the audience didn't do it, then the moderators at CNN, NBC or CBS did. It's comical that now that it happened to President Obama there is an outrage. But notice it is only being voiced in liberal papers/tv stations like this one. The only thing that I see wrong with this is that the practice that Democrats started of heckling the president, is now being continued by Republicans. Whether you agree or disagree with him, the office of the presidency deserves respect and I wish that was something we all could observe.

What has not been widely reported is the Mr. Obama used the word "Lies" when referring to Repulbican "elected officials just before the disgraceful outburst by Mr. Wilson.

I have watched Presidential speeches for 50 years, and I have never seen a President use such language.

BOTH Mr. Obama and Mr. Wilson owe the American public an apology

Why do left wingers and other liberals assume that every Hispanic is in lock-step with supporting illegals? I for one am not, and neither were my immigrant parents. They obeyed the laws of the land, they worked hard to be lawful citizens, and now they see illegals getting far more BECAUSE they are illegal.

Liberals are the real bigots, because they look at a persons skin or their language and assume that they can think only one way and ridicule any who dare to think otherwise.

How about combining deporation offices in emergency rooms?

Seems like an easy fix.

Bottom line. Rep. Joe Wilson should be censured.

If he's not, then the Democrats have no stones and this country will continue to go down the path of destruction that started with the lies about the Vietnam war, Watergate, Iran-Contra, Monica Lewinsky and the war against Iraq.

We often tell our children, pay attention to our Congress and our Representatives. Aspire to greater callings and leadership.

And in steps Rep. Wilson with his catcall.

While the posters here defend him, many of his colleagues reacted as if he had openly farted.

Rep. Wilson from South Carolina farting during a joint session of Congress may not be offensive to the Republican base, but at least some Republicans in Congress could not bear the smell.

Lie? Did anyone shout lier when President George W. Bush stood in front of the television cameras demanding that we invade Iraq, because they had weapons of mass destruction? So we did and how many lives did we lose?

It is certainly nice to know that some things never change. South Carolina, the first state to secede from the Union in 1861. Charleston, SC, the site of the first shot fired during the Civil War. SC, the home of Strom Thurmond, Mark Sanford and now Joe Wilson.

Thank you Joe Wilson for speaking out for millions of people in the U.S.

Joe Wilson is the true face of the Republican Party. It's that simple.

I love the irony here. After months of disinformation, scare tactics and out-right lies from the Repugnicant's they have the balls to call Obama a liar. As much as Bush lied and screwed us, the democrats always had enough class to let him speak. Glad to see that they are showing their spots as pawns of corporate greed and sellers of ignorance. I don't agree with all of Obama's ideas, but nothing he proposed was anti-American. If anything I think it still gives too much power to the insurance companies. Mind you, these are the same companies that can afford to spend billions lobbying congress. If they have that much money to blow, they certainly don't need to increase my premiums and decline treatment.

Sure illegals are excluded from coverage under the Healthcare Bill, but there's no enforcement nor penalties provided, and attempts to pass amendments to enact them have been defeated--how stupid do you think we are? If you believe Obama on this, you must believe he can cover the cost of this legislation by rooting out waste and fraud in Medicare and Medicade. It's insulting to see how Chicago-style politics is being applied nationwide.

A WHITE Republican from South Carolina yelling at a BLACK president while discussion healthcare and IMMIGRANTS. Gee, its not too difficult to connect the dots. You are a disgrace to your race, your state and the Congress.

The "I want attention" republican got his fifteen minutes of fame for the internet. Lets move on to real issues.

So Obama can call Palin a liar, insults thousands of citizens engaging in free speech by calling town hall protests a "partisan spectacle" in a nationally televised speech without criticism and w/o calls for apologizing, but Joe Wilson can say what most people think and he his wrong?
The speech was a joke- Obama added nothing new to the debate and chose to be confrontational, belligerent... and yes, dishonest. Wilson's first instincts were right on target- he never should have apologized.

Thank you Joe Wilson! You have--unwittingly, of course, because wack jobs like you are just too stupid--assured passage of long overdue health care reform. You, with an assist by Eric "BlackBerry" Cantor, have done more to help the cause than anything the Dems could have done. I hope the President invites both of you to the signing ceremony.

This guy Wilson, is a fine example to our youth, along with a number of professional athletes.

Tacky to call the president a liar in a televised news conference? Yep. However, how could Obama possibly extend coverage to illegal aliens now that he's been put on the spot in such a public manner? If the coverage is extended, then Senator Wilson looks awfully good (albeit tacky) and Obama will have to do an awful lot of backpedaling. Could this have been planned?

I guess taking off a shoe and throwing it at the president would have been acceptable.

I mean, all you Sheeple-Obamabots thought that was a great one to pull on Bush, didn't you?

little billy - you are the biggest hypocrite of them all. Do you throw up just a bit in your mouth every time you talk?

Posted by: VivianC | September 10, 2009 1:21 AM

Here's the difference, Viv;

Obama is a Nazi that will have death panels = a lie

The healthcare reform bill will not cover illegal aliens = the truth

And what does Rep Joe Wilson plan to do when his Nanny, construction worker, cook, gardener, shop clerk, food handler, fruit and vegetable picker, painter, or meat packer get sick? Deny them coverage? They are already getting covered in our ineffecient emergency rooms and we are all paying for it presently. So why not try and prevent some of these emergency room visits and do things a little more efficiently? Mr. Wilson is just being short sighted and losing track of the overall picture. I'm sure his immigrant heritage would have appreciated more respect.

OK librools puzzel me thisone!
Stephan Hauking would have been dead sooner if English!

Attention All Americans: !!!!

I have been watching goverment programs grow bigger and more expensive all my life...(67 years now).

(Post Office??..medicaid, social security..etc... all financial blackholes)

Who is foolish enough to beleive a Goverment RUN... Health Care Program is going to keep it's spending inline with projections?

What about efficiency?... Laughable isn't it!

i try not to be so cynical, but we have a president who doesn't speak straight forward, he has lost his trust in many americans. I don't agree with Rep Wilson's demeanor, But i have to agree, our president has, & does LIE !!!

Does anyone dare dispute the fact our goverment cannot run a program that keeps it spending inline?...

We are planting the land mines now....

Our kids and grandkids are the one who are going to step on them!!!..

Go ahead, pat your self on the back, it's ALL ABOUT YOU ISN"T IT?

Has any congressman every heckled a president? Yes. And why not? They are allowed freedom of speech.

if the standard is the full House Bill, HR3200, then it appears that Obama was incorrect. There is nothing in HR3200 that excludes illegal aliens from the various coverage provisions (with a few limited exceptions). The Congressional Research Service agrees with this assessment (full report embedded below). For example, with regard to health care exchanges, the CRS found:

H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens-whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently-participating in the Exchange.
Since the Obama administration wanted a full House vote passing HR3200 prior to the August recess, Obama was okay with a bill that included illegal aliens.

Republicans have abdicated their place at the American Table. Their opinions and philosophies are not to be given credence by all good citizens.

By their actions they have shown themselves to be puerile and profoundly unamerican. Their caterwauling shall be unheeded and their lies shall be ignored.

Harry Reid called George W. Bush a "loser" and a "liar." Dems booed Bush during his State of the Union addresses. Isn't turnabout fair play? Our elected "clowns" in Congress - no - the whole country doesn't realize extremes are no better than religious fundamentalists who know nothing but criticizing and attacking everybody else.. The truth is ALWAYS somewhere in between. The United States is on a runaway train going in the opposite direction.

Joe Wilson is the picture of Republican's reality.If you insult your President ,you are insulting an institution,this senator should be hackled till he resigns

He should be disciplined by the House.

Well, here you have it, folks. The president says something, so it must be true. I mean, come on: The law clearly states that illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive health care. Therefore, clearly, no illegal immigrants will receive health care in this country. I don't see what the problem is here. Obama should next declare that the law will prohibit a government-run health care program from adding to the deficit, while not including any real mechanism to prevent it from doing so. See? Problem solved. And if you see any flaws in this line of reasoning, then you are a racist and an idiot. Now let's get back to adoring our president and plotting how to properly punish Rep. Wilson.

No class. Typical childish outburst by a representative of the neanderthal, angry right. Way to advance the discourse, baby.

Lie? Did anyone shout lier when President George W. Bush stood in front of the television cameras demanding that we invade Iraq, because they had weapons of mass destruction? So we did and how many lives did we lose?

Posted by: Warren | September 10, 2009 10:18 AM

Psst... Warren... Are you insinuating that someone on the Democratic side should have shouted "Liar!" at President Bush? But that would have been an utterly despicable act of incivility that should be punishable by immediate removal from any elected post and/or summary execution by firing squad. Clearly, that would have damaged the Democrats and branded their entire party as a bunch of backward barbarians with no respect for the office of the president of the United States who should never receive another vote for all time.
Oh, and plus, almost all of your Democrats also believed that Iraq had WMD.

Hey is that REp Roskam, Dupage's rep sitting next to the heckler. Judge you by the company you keep...

Hey is that REp Roskam, Dupage's rep sitting next to the heckler. Judge you by the company you keep...

Like all right thinking uber-patriotic real americans, nothing makes me happier than the thought of a child of illegal immigrants dying at the doors to the ER after they have been denied the care they need. I don't belive that lawbreakers like that kid deserve to live. I don't recognize any value in their lives or their basic humanity. I have no compassion, no human feelling, just hatred for thos immigrants. After all this is our country. We stole it from the Indians and Mexico fair and square!

All of the back and forth is crazy. Funny thing is that it's no different then how this country came into existence. The liberals are complaining because they feel they aren't being heard and the conservatives are complaining because they think their rights and values are being stripped. Wake up people we are all screwed. I don't care of President Clinton was heckled, Bush, Regan or whomever, we don't respect each other, why would the leader of this country be any different?

This debate on Healthcare has been an issue for years. We live in a country where we only see what is in front of us at the moment. What happens when you are diagnosed with something terminal, loose a job or better yet work where there isn't any insurance being provided? Just suffer? When you've been without you see the necessity for reform. People need to start making choices based on self and stop being lap dogs to others and their opinions.

Sp many people keep quoting articles and various people. Facts are important but a fact isn't going to be the thing paying when the bill comes. Let's get personal and ask how does this plan affect me. The illegal immigrant thing, blame that on the past. I definably don't agree that they should be covered, but that issue also started WELL before President Obama. He didn't pass the bill, the law or the action that made it possible. It's yet another thing that he is left with having to fix or reform.

Some can hate me for saying this but oh well, it's the way of the United States. We are punishing President Obama because people don't like him as an individual. This man has a huge mess to clean up that was left behind by his predecessors and still keep his own promises. Folks started in on him the day after he was sworn in. In the meantime, he has little to no support from his constituents or citizens. Instead of offering an olive branch people find a way to criticize EVERYTHING he does. The who issue over his education speech proved that.

Just another corporate bought and paid for lackey that wants to keep the profits rolling in and Bush business as usual.

This clown makes about as much sense as the Sara wench.

Obama is a liar. He lied to us that unemployment would not go above 8% IF we pased his porkulus bill. It passed. Unemployment = 10%.

Whats the news here??? HE LIES.

The Party of NO strikes again!! When you have no ideas, no ethics and NO RESPECT or patriotism left there is nothing left to do but act the fool! Not only did this moron act disrespectfully and shame himself, his party and the people he was elected to represent (I surely hope he does not represent his constituents with this statement) we also have that goof ball Cantor texting during the speech. NOW THERE IS RESPECT!!! If your kid did that to you while you were talking to them about something as important as this you would take the phone away. Guess that goes to show that the REPUBS just don't care about the issue and are intent on continuing to be the obstructionist party they have become!!!!!!

"The fringe regional Party from the south again shows why they are the fringe regional Party from the south."
Posted by: Jeff D.

It's typical that the only ones acting like barbaric savages on national television are white Republicans. Most assuredly, they will rally around their pot-bellied leader Joe Wilson and continue promoting their usual fare of hatred and intolerance while looking like the sociopathic cretins they are.

It was refreshing to hear someone in Washington speak the truth. THANK YOU SOUTH CAROLINA!!

Obama is a liar. He lied to us that unemployment would not go above 8% IF we pased his porkulus bill. It passed. Unemployment = 10%.

Whats the news here??? HE LIES.

Joe Wilson for President!

Not only is he rude and inaccurate-he's either a coward or technologically challenged. His website said it was closed for maintenance for some hours earlier today(SURE!!)-now it has the more accurate message that it's overwhelmed by heavy volume, not taking emails/comments.
Heavy traffic, yes. Closed for maintenance, no.
This isn't the first time he's gone off on someone in a national Congressional setting-look at comments made in 02 to Filner with a half-assed "apology" after.
I hope Rahm ripped his ear off when Wilson called last night with his "apology" but suspect Rahmbo might have held back, oh well.

heartburn, I don't recall Obama mentioning Palin's name at all. When did he call her a liar?

The fact is that illegal immigrants SHOULD be covered. We will pay for their health care anyway, although indeirectly and in a more costly manner. As a public health issue, the last thing we need is an epidemic breaking out because some illegals with a deadly contagious disease do not get treated in a timely fashion.

Most illegals in this country are not on the public dole because they do not want to be noticed. They are working for someone at minimum wage performing jobs that our "true" Americans do not want. They are almost like indentured slaves...and are not to be allowed medical care when needed. That is a tough existence in this Greatest of all Nations.

REPUBLICANS:
Please answer this question.
An unconscious Hispanic looking person has just been brought into the ER with blood gushing from his neck. Do you want a gummint agent rifling thru this mans wallet to find out if he is a legal citizen before doctors try to stabilize him??????

Everyone gets ONE chance...Wilson is done. He should be expelled from the House of Reps. TODAY. He clearly has no understanding of respect toward anyone or any thing...The guy is a pig and should be sent packing....

* * * * *
Posted by: Mel | September 10, 2009 7:40 AM
.
Mel,
.
Thanks for assuming I’d get all upset. I’m not upset. I’m just moderately annoyed that you always make such assumptions about me. Next time, just grow a pair and ask me the question. Okay?
.
I can’t really answer your question about whether Pat Buchanan’s writings “resonate” with conservatives, although I suspect they do with some conservatives. They don’t resonate with me. I am not xenophobic, and I don’t oppose the immigration of non-white people the way Buchanan does. (And contrary to your assumption, I am not a staunch conservative. Libertarians agree with conservatives only in part - and not the part on immigration.)
.
I believe this country needs to get over its hypocrisy with regard to immigrants. We can’t continue to hate them and need them at the same time. Our love-hate relationship with immigrants is now causing many highly skilled immigrants to return to their home countries to the detriment of our industries and economy. If we need foreigners to immigrate to fill the labor force, they should be allowed into the country to work. They should also be treated with the same dignity and respect that is everyone’s due. But we should also have a way to account for their presence here.
.
But I also believe Barack Obama needs to come clean about the fact that he plans to make everyone currently “illegal” or “undocumented” eligible for health care benefits by making them legal. (See http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/us/politics/09immig.html . ) To me, it’s not an immigration question. It’s an honesty problem Barack Obama has with regard to the health care debate. He is hiding behind the prohibition against covering illegal immigrants as a way to claim that those who are currently here illegally won’t be covered. He even gave a figure of 36 million people who need coverage (rather than the normal 45 to 47 million) in last night’s speech. (See http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2009/09/obama_health_care_speech_befor_1.html .) If it means admitting that he plans to push 10 million more people onto the rolls of the health care system, he should say so. Its relevance to cost and infrastructure issues is obvious.

The President is a liar and it's about time someone pointed that out publically.

Rep. Joe Wilson, my hero! A true Patriot in the vain of Paul Revere. Maybe not Paul Revere. Glenn Beck is more like Paul Revere but Joe Wilson is a man to be honored and saluted for his courage to stand before this Socialist beast and say "GET OFF MY BACK! YOUR PEOPLE ARE LEECHES AND CRIMINALS!"

Everyone here can take any side they want but the bottom line is ablout PROTOCAL. You do NOT yell at the President. It makes no difference who is in office, what the issue is or what side of the fence you are on. You just don't do it. End of discussion.

How soon people forget. Mr. Page, did you forget how the Democrats booed President Bush during his State of the Union address? It is always interesting to see how people argue that conduct is unbecoming the decorum of an institution when they themselves did likewise when the other side was in power.

Thank goodness someone like Joe Wilson, Republican from South Carolina stood up for the people's rights. I was hoping that more of our Republican friends would back him up. The President is a liar but I can see it is still going to take some dim witted people some time to see the truth. Unfortunately, it will be too late. I applaude you Mr. Wilson. Don't feel bad you spoke the truth. You should not have had to apologize.

Shame on Wilson; shame on the disrespectful Repubilcans.

Wilson's first instincts were right on target- he never should have apologized.

Posted by: heartburn | September 10, 2009 10:44 AM

Continuing to defend the craziness. Yep good ol' death panels. Let's kill grandma......brilliant, dishonest, and down right stupid. Fact check has debunked this as garbage but the rabid refuse to let this enter their minds as rocks are hard to penetrate. You just can't fix stupid and the more you defend it, the more ridiculous it becomes. What is worse is that Bush when Governor passed this and pushed by Palin:

The details: In 1999, as governor of Texas, former U.S. President George W. Bush signed legislation giving medical professionals an unprecedented level of autonomous power and creating perhaps the country's only example of a "death panel" in action.

The Advance Directives Act, known also as the Texas Futile Care Law, mostly functions in the way Palin's so-called death panels would: It gives patients the right to dictate the kind of end-of-life care they would like to receive. But the law contains a provision allowing a hospital committee to arbitrate disputes between families and physicians. The boards can end life support for patients if the care is determined to be "futile." Under the current law, the hospital need only inform the patient's family two days before the committee meets to make its decision; the family has 10 days to transfer its loved one to another facility. The Texas legislature is currently considering legislation to extend the time frame.

Advance directives were encouraged by, among others, Palin herself. When still governor of Alaska, she issued a statement on Healthcare Decisions Day encouraging an "increase [in] the number of Alaska's citizens with advance directives."

Just when you thought you couldn't get far enough away from obnoxious Republicans, here comes rude, crude, disrespectful Joe Wilson at a presidential speech. He owes the President and the American people a public apology. Illegeal aliens would NOT be covered and all you have to do is go to factcheck to check it out. Sheesh, how hard is that? And for the record I am an Independent, not a Democrat. Buy a clue Joe.

Hey Joe,
In your comment that "you are known by the company you keep." Are you sure you want to use that comment in the same sentence as Obama's name is used? Wow, think of all the evil people that Obama hangs around with! You may want to rethink that statement. Obama is evil and hangs with evil people.

I just donated a chunk of cash to Wilson online.
;
Posted by: Monique | September 10, 2009 9:43 AM
;
Oh really???? His website has been down for "maintainance" so riddle us this. How did you contribute when you cannot access his website ONLINE? Are you lying?????

There are conflicting statements in the Bill, Section 152 prohibits discrimination based on "personal characteristics".

Hey Winski,
You can kick Wilson out just as soon as you do Wrangle.

* * * * *
Posted by: Jackie | September 10, 2009 7:38 AM
.
Jackie,
.
Your question is too easy. You shouldn’t throw softballs like that.
.
When he was a Senator, Barack Obama supported the Kennedy-Kyl immigration reform bill. That bill called for giving illegal aliens “legal” status in this country upon completing several conditions. Earlier this year, we had a “senior administration official” state that “President Obama plans to begin addressing the country’s immigration system this year, including looking for a path for illegal immigrants to become legal …” (See http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/us/politics/09immig.html .) We heard the same thing again from Obama and DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano as recently as August 21, 2009. (See http://immigrationimpact.com/2009/08/21/the-president-and-secretary-napolitano-reaffirm-commitment-to-immigration-reform/ .) So, no, I’m not guessing at this at all.
.
Furthermore, I never said that I was criticizing his stance on immigration. I simply intimated that his “no health care coverage for illegals” position is patently false when one considers that he plans to make today’s illegals tomorrow’s citizens. He has been making it sound like today’s illegals won’t be covered - as if they are going to stay illegal and, therefore, ineligible for coverage. That’s simply dishonest.

Hey Winski,

Wilson can be kicked out as soon as Wrangle is.

Another small person with big power. He certainly lives up to the meaning of the old joke:
Q. "What's the difference between North Carolina and South Carolina?
A. 100 years
How pathetic.

bill r,
I guess Palin was for death panels before she was against them.

ALL politicians lie; it is what they do. I mean, aren't most of them lawyers??

heartburn, I don't recall Obama mentioning Palin's name at all. When did he call her a liar?

Posted by: Mel | September 10, 2009 11:42 AM

Your right- vaguely referring to "prominant politcians" and calling them a liar completely raises Obama above the fray...

So who was he referring to?

NEWSFLASH: Sarah Palin IS a liar. There are no death panels, none, nada, zip, zilch. It's a lie and the president was justified in calling it that.

The GOP behave as children and are not interested in serious discussion, or in fixing the problems with healthcare. Their stated goal is to see this president fail and if telling lies and scaring people to death accomplishes that, they're fine with it.

With that out in the open and acknowledged by the president, there is no reason to seek GOP approval on this. They have taken themselves out of the game.

heartburn, I don't recall Obama mentioning Palin's name at all. When did he call her a liar?

Posted by: Mel | September 10, 2009 11:42 AM

Your right- vaguely referring to "prominant politcians" and calling them a liar completely raises Obama above the fray...

So who was he referring to?

First, Rep. Wilson's outburst was inappropriate and embarrassing. The office of POTUS is due some respect, even if you don't agree with what the man is saying.

--------------------

Second, does any Obama apologist (including Mark Silva) have any response to the Congressional Research Service's report on the House bill that contradicts Obama's claim about illegals not being eligible? Or when Heller proposed an Amendment to include such a provision, the House Democrats voted it down in committee along party lines?

-------------------------

Here is a link to the 8/25/09 Congressional Research Service's Report on House Bill 3200, which states in relevant part as follows:

“H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens participating in the Exchange—whether the noncitizens are legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently.”

http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/R40773_20090825.pdf

----------------------

Here is a link to the text of the Heller Amendment, which was shot down by Democrats on a party line vote:

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/Heller_Amdt_Text.pdf

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HEALTHCARE BILLS ?
Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled.

However, as scary as all of that it, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that
this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead, it is a

convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated. If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed

Heartburn, But Sarah Palin isn't a politician anymore, so that reference can't be to her. Remember, she left to follow a "higher calling". I think she's a community organizer now, isn't she? Or is she part of the "chattering class"?

* * * * *
Posted by: tastytone | September 10, 2009 5:09 AM
.
Why is it “xenophobia” to point out the truth regarding an immigration policy? Barack Obama plans to push for a bill not unlike the Kennedy-Kyl comprehensive immigration reform bill. He is specifically seeking a path to make illegal aliens “legal.” This just happens to be the truth. You merely ASSUME xenophobia on my part because you ASSUME that I disagree with this policy. But I don’t. Does the truth bother you?
.
The part that gets me is that Barack Obama stood there last night and lied. He claimed that he doesn’t support coverage for illegal aliens. But he does. I mean, really, what difference is there between simply making illegal aliens eligible for coverage and making those illegal aliens “legal’ and, thus, eligible for coverage? Either way, the very same 10 to 12 million people become eligible for coverage. And that is the precise fact that he seems eager to deflect. In his speech, he even revised downward the estimate of people who need coverage to 36 million from the normal 45 to 46 million as estimated by the Census Bureau. The only difference is that the Census Bureau included approximately 10 million illegal aliens in its estimates. That’s why I said this is all a “rather transparent war of words.”
.
BTW - I am not a Republican, and I don’t watch or listen to Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh. Unlike you, I do my own thinking all the time.

Your right- vaguely referring to "prominant politcians" and calling them a liar completely raises Obama above the fray...

So who was he referring to?

Posted by: heartburn | September 10, 2009 12:29 PM
Palin quit. She no longer holds a political office thus she is not a politician. That line is not referring to her genius.m

Heartburn, But Sarah Palin isn't a politician anymore, so that reference can't be to her. Remember, she left to follow a "higher calling". I think she's a community organizer now, isn't she? Or is she part of the "chattering class"?

Posted by: Mel | September 10, 2009 12:47 PM

So who was Obama referring to as a liar in his speech?

At least wilson had the backbone to accuse Obama to his face...

It's over - you could see it on the faces of the republican thugs last night. they are now talkin about malpractice reform - 99.9% of the country doesn't know what that is. Trust me you don't want that - Rudy was jumping up and down this am - malpractice reform - bohner looked as if he had lost his best friend last night - assuming he has one - cantor was busy making an appointment to get his hair done and the SC delegation added another idioit to its roster. There are so many of them sanford, demint,fox and now joe - what is wrong with the people of SC that they keep electing such fools?

It's over - you could see it on the faces of the republican thugs last night. they are now talkin about malpractice reform - 99.9% of the country doesn't know what that is. Trust me you don't want that - Rudy was jumping up and down this am - malpractice reform - bohner looked as if he had lost his best friend last night - assuming he has one - cantor was busy making an appointment to get his hair done and the SC delegation added another idioit to its roster. There are so many of them sanford, demint,fox and now joe - what is wrong with the people of SC that they keep electing such fools?

Even the AP is noting Obama's lies.

"FACT CHECK: Obama uses iffy math on deficit pledge

By CALVIN WOODWARD and ERICA WERNER, Associated Press
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama used only-in-Washington accounting Wednesday when he promised to overhaul the nation's health care system without adding "one dime" to the deficit. By conventional arithmetic, Democratic plans would drive up the deficit by billions of dollars.

The president's speech to Congress contained a variety of oversimplifications and omissions in laying out what he wants to do about health insurance."

Read more, at news.yahoo.com. If you dare.

Posted by: Dissent is Patriotic | September 10, 2009 9:09 AM

While it's true that FactCheck DID disagree with the President on his nebulousness (if that's a word) regarding funding -- with which I ALSO have some trouble -- that same source also made it plain that "Death Panels" and funding of Illegal Aliens as part of the current Health bill are lies from the RIGHT.

Just thought I'd mention that.

Obama calls Sarah Palin a liar
What a disgusting example of behavior that is beneath the Presidency. Kudos to you Joe Wilson, for saying what over half of America is thinking!

So who was Obama referring to as a liar in his speech?

At least wilson had the backbone to accuse Obama to his face...

Posted by: heartburn | September 10, 2009 1:07 PM

I can't believe you are one to use this ridiculous claim. Death panels are a bold face lie. Period!

President Obama isn't lying when he says that illegal aliens will not get "free" health care when reforms take effect in 2012.
.
Long before 2012, Democrats will have extended amnesty to the "undocumented aliens" already here, making them proper citizens (and over-whelmingly Democrat voters beholden to Obama and Company) who will qualify for health care benefits like any other citizens.
.
The direct costs for these 12 million or so new recipients of "free" health care have not be calculated into projections, let alone the indirect costs associated with a supply-demand curve thrown out of equilibrium by the sudden surge on the demand side.
.
Joe Wilson and other Republican leaders should press Obama to pledge to not grant amnesty to illegals -- this is clearly the next shoe to drop and will only be stopped if Democrats are called on it now. They clearly are waiting until 1) they can get a preliminary health care "reform" law in place; 2) the economic cycle has moved well into recovery, including lower unemployment, so mainstream America will be far less anxious about illegal immigrants; 3) the Tea Party/Town Hall anger has run its course.
.
More at the Force for Good blog at http://jon8332.typepad.com/force...force_for_good/

At some point, conservative fiscal policy and the efficient use of capital will need to honor compassionate conservatism's position
towards post right-to-life's quality of life. At some point a debate on the issue of population control needs to occur. Semantics are the tools of entrenched lobbyists.

mel,
HB is employing circular logic on you. Forget him/her.

The facts are simple.
1. 'Death panels' = a lie
2. 'You lie!' = a lie in itself
3. Illegals won't be covered under reform = the truth (see sec. 246)

It's pretty funny. Palin, Becky, all the gaggle of T-Bagging Barfers have been lying about BHO and the Dems. plan all summer. Finally he hits back, with the truth, and it's so so unfair.

I'm sure Becky is..... getting.......all....choked..............up...

Joe Wilson now joins an illustrious list of grerat Amercans:

Sarah Palin
Joe the Plumber
Rush Limbaugh
Bill O'Reilly
Sean Hannity
Glenn Beck
Joe Scarborough
Dick Cheney
Daffy Duck
Yosemite Sam
and the Tasmanian Devil (immigrant)

What a sad state of affairs when these corporate-sponsored yahoos get the attention of easily duped weak minded reactionaries.

Malpractice reform is a necessity for there to be true healthcare reform. Physicians practice expensive "defensive" medicine, making a significant impact on the cost of healthcare, not to mention the personal impact that it has on the stress level of physicians. It also gets in the way of physician -patient relationships as many MDs/DOs are wary of some encounters and procedures.

I support the prsident in his efforts to establish a better health care ystem, but on the issue of malpractice reform he is misinformed and neeed to stop heeding he propaganda from the trial lawyers.

This is virtually the only issue which the Repos have right.

Who wrote the Health Care Bill?

I love it when the republicans pull kids - grandkids out of the closet! and then vote against every school issue that comes up. republicans know that that the game is over - they lost and oh how they lost - last night bohner looked as though he lost his best friend - assuming he had one - cantor was busy making an appointment to get his hair done. mcconnell was sucking up to anyone who came along. they are now talking about malpractice reform as part of the health plan - 99.9% of this country doesn't even know what that is. SC certainly made herself proud last night - this idiot just joined the ranks of sanford, demint, fox and god only know what other idiots live in SC. What is wrong with the residents of SC that they elect such fools? I have worked in both SC and NC and trust me the residents of NC are a much better group of folks, South Carolinians are lacking in education and compassion and a few other important things.

Dear Editor,

I must admit, I was somewhat surprised at the controversy concerning Congressman Joe Wilson yelling “You lie!” during the Obama lecture on healthcare to Congress and the rest of us. I never heard it. I was too busy yelling “You lie!” at my television set at the same time.

Jim McNally
Chicago, IL

It appears that the Repos did not like that our articulate president has started counterpunching. The blows hurt and it seems that Wilson and the boys (and girl) are a bit weak-chinned.

Jim McNally:

You need to formally apologize to your TV set.

I can't believe the inappropriate and disrespectful behavior towards our president.

So Republicans are OK with Taxes being raised to pay for a larger Immigration police?

Although the man spoke out at an inappropriate time, why is what he said so inappropriate? He was speaking non-truths. There is a part of the bill which states that illegal immigrants will be allowed to get healthcare. So the what was wrong with what he said? You can still speak your mind here right? Or is that also part of America's reform plan? Again he spoke up at the wrong time but give me another politician who has not made a mistake and I'll show you another liar.

The president was outlining his guidelines for a healthcare reform bill. In that bill he states that there will not be coverage for illegal immigrants. You would think that Rep. Wilson would be pleased that the President went on record, in front of the entire nation, with regard to that point.

I suspect that what upset him is that one more point of contention was laid to rest and that the Repos arsenal of weapons is getting lean. Nothing upsets a Repo more than running out of ammunition.

What Rep. Wilson said in a very inappropriate way is absolutely true: Obama lied in his speech last night. While I was not in the chamber last night, I was saying the same thing at my house during his much vaunted speech. Problem is, no matter how many times someone says "2+2=5", no matter with how much conviction or however charmingly it is said, it simply will never be true. It is insulting to the American people that this President continues to insist that health care reform will not add to the deficit, or that private insurance wouldn't at all be affected by a public option, or that we can keep our insurance. It is very lawyerly doublespeak to insist that these falsehoods (lies) are true. Most Americans neither speak lawyerly doublespeak nor care much for it.

His speech was a disappointment and a ringing testament to the fact that he has no answers to explain his ridiculous, expensive ObamaCare. He needs to go back to the drawing board and offer something more logical than this plan.

This man has a power ranking of 390 out of 435. He is practically irrelevant in the health care debate. His mother just did not bring him up to know any better. He needs to take some lessons in common decency.

Republicans are losers and care nothing of the districts and people they represent. Why would any person of decent civility want to be associated with the Republican Party? They're in the love with big business and that's who they represent, not their constituents who are poor and really need affordable health care access.

Since when is respecting the President of the United States an American value? We as a people should show our politicians nothing but contempt at all times.

KDK:

NOTHING compares to the fabrications regarding healthcare reform that emantes from the mouths of both rightwing-nuts in the media and supposedly respectable Republican politicians:

Death panels
Rationing of care
A completely government run system
Free care for illegal immigrants
Fascism
Socialism
Communism

Please do not accuse the president of lying when your heroes carry on such a vicious campaign of disinformation, intended to obfuscate and confuse. Clearly those benefiting from the status quo (and who are extremely well off) are funding these attacks. The Repos represent them (Insurance industry, etc) and not the Americans whose best interests they should be serving.

Just like the batsh*t crazy Republican from South Carolina (Wilson) who was purposely disrespecting the president tonight, you are fear mongering!

Posted by: unemployed lawyer

From your comments we can see how it is you've become an unemplyed lawyer.

I had always thought the only unemployed lawyers were behind bars otherwise their license to steal is valid at all times.

Whatever the content of the speech, lies or no lies, politically is not important. The behavior of the Republican party towards the President is a huge neon light on exactly how far this party has fallen. Yelling, texting essentially acting like a bored 12 year old and doing it with full world attention is not a way to bring in and expand your parties base. It though is a great way to provide video and sound bites for the Democrat party. Sarah Palin, George Bush and Dick Cheney, those were only the tip of the iceberg for the demise of the Republican party, last night showed how the entire party is falling, free falling off of the cliff.

mel,
HB is employing circular logic on you. Forget him/her.

The facts are simple.
1. 'Death panels' = a lie
2. 'You lie!' = a lie in itself
3. Illegals won't be covered under reform = the truth (see sec. 246)

It's pretty funny. Palin, Becky, all the gaggle of T-Bagging Barfers have been lying about BHO and the Dems. plan all summer. Finally he hits back, with the truth, and it's so so unfair.

I'm sure Becky is..... getting.......all....choked..............up...

Posted by: C.Morris✧ | September 10, 2009 1:30 PM

morris-forget me if you want but Mel had challenged me on my comparison of Obama calling "prominent politicians" a liar to Wilson's calling Obama a liar... on grounds that he hadn't used Palin’s name- fair enough- so who was he calling a liar is a completely fair and logical point... uncomfortable for Mel ( and apparently you) but logical.
So- if calling someone a liar in the "hallowed" sanctity of congress is such a crime why are you giving Obama a pass?
Circular logic? How can you or Obama for that matter accuse anyone of lying about anything in the bills as written? As written they - I believe by design- say nothing clearly and invite accusations...
Unlike you- I do not take the health care bill as VERBALLY presented by your messiah as anything other than aspirational "gee I hope this works" nonsense.
--
BTW- I am sure Mel can take care of himself...

heartburn,
Congressional Decorum states that when a speaker is given the floor, in this case the President, all others are to refrain from comment or debate until the speaker has yielded the floor. Sorry to brings facts and perspective into the equation. That's why he has a "pass".

heartburn,
Congressional Decorum states that when a speaker is given the floor, in this case the President, all others are to refrain from comment or debate until the speaker has yielded the floor. Sorry to brings facts and perspective into the equation. That's why he has a "pass".

Posted by: janet | September 10, 2009 4:03 PM

Janet- That is probably the only valid argument against Wilson's outburst... and I agree that yelling at the president was not a very productive way to communicate.

But don't tell me that congress follows consistently " Congressional Decorum" when both sides routinely clap in standing ovations, boo, grumble etc.. regardless of having the floor.

Also- if you accept that the president or anyone should get a pass for calling people a liar in public solely based on having the floor- then my guess is that you are engaging in some serious hero worshipping.

Obama and Wilson essentially did the same thing- Wilson just did it out of turn, and ( unlike Obama) also has the benefit of being correct.

heartburn, are you saying that:

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."

is not a lie? If so, please show the section in any proposed legislation where Government Panel will decide who get's healthcare based on their "level of productivity in society." If that claim is anything other than a lie, it should be easy for you to find the proof for it.

Sarah Palin is a pathological liar...a skill that she uses to cover her lack of substance and preparation.

Citing Section 246 to suggest that Wilson is wrong is specious. That's like saying people won't speed on the freeway, because there's a law against it. Attempts were made to subject the bill to the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements ("SAVE") program, which is an enforcement mechanism used in conjunction with dozens of other programs. Those attempts were all voted down and characterized as a "deal breaker" by the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. Section 246 notwithstanding, there won't be any enforcement mechanism in place, and the president knows it. Wilson was correct. You can have a reasonable discussion about whether or not illegal residents SHOULD benefit from the proposed public option, but you can't have one about whether they WILL benefit. At least the way it's going now, they will.

Republicans allow employers to hire illegals and allow hospital to admit for healthcare. And blame the Democrats. How smart they are to play this game. They help employers to get big bucks and share some of them at last.

Let's not forget the 1999 Texas 'fruitless treatment' law signed by George W. Bush. It would literally pull the plug on 'folks'.

"Obama calls Sarah Palin a liar
What a disgusting example of behavior that is beneath the Presidency. Kudos to you Joe Wilson, for saying what over half of America is thinking!
Posted by: Kate | September 10, 2009 1:27 PM"

Except the president has the truth on his side; Sarah was lying.

Say Goodbye to Joe Wilson:
www.cafepress.com/youliejoewilson#link-productCategory-102

For those aping Obama's lie....you clearly have not read HR 3200. There is nothing in this bill that states illegals are not eligible for the program. Section 242 & Section 246 state that illegals are not eligible to receive credits to help pay their premiums, but it does not say anything regarding eligibility in general. That means they can play. Try reading the document for a change rather than simply quoting what you read at the DailyKos, HuffPo or any of the other lib sites.

You know what? All of this does not even matter. I don't care. We have one president. Problem is there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Hoot and holler, scream and shout, whatever. It is not going to make any difference. They will do what they will. Period. I hope they just pass the bill already and move on to the next order of business. I can't stand games, and I see lots of bs on here. No person is perfect, so all of this talk is for nothing. Lots of stone throwing and the people doing most of the throwing have the most you know what in their lives. Personally, I do not believe the president is the liar. I do know that he is intelligent and has been raised properly. Joe Wilson, not so much. But who really cares. Bottom line...President Barack Obama has the job. He's going to make the call. Wilson, have at it, scream, shout, hop up and down, have a teabag party, heck, pour me a cup! LOL I would recommend reading a quote from Lincoln while you have your tea party..." 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865), (attributed)

Also, Rob Miller seems like a decent guy. He's Wilson's opponent. He's a former Marine. Hoorah! It's Miller time!

On a side note...there are some comments with people referring to the UK's Parliament system, where it's common to be heckled and they seem to support it. While we're all supporting how they scream at leadership, why not support how they run their healthcare? I think these fools claim to be American, but like all things British ( I'm fond of British things)...I mean, they're all so-called "Patriotic, flag-waving, etc." But they like the UK heckling in Parliament, they like tea parties, hey, just go all the way and embrace the UK's healthcare system, too. LOL

Mr. President, pass the darn bill already! Forget these two-faced folks.

All he did was call something he believes to be a lie, a lie, and he did apologize for the inappropriate outburst...not at all on the low level of Liberal rude, crude, and undeserved absolute disrespect toward the previously sitting President Bush (and I disagreed with many of his actions, too).....speaking of easily duped weak minded reactionaries.

When confronted did Obama admit his untruth or do you really believe he does not know that he intends to make all illegals "legal" so they can participate in the O healthcare, too....look at the whole picture and you will see. You can't understand an elephant by studying one of its toenails.

This is about deception regarding a badly written and document, not about personalities.

Let's get in touch will reality again, shall we?

In congress, both the House and Senate, a member can be reprimanded for ANY deprecating remarks applied to another member.
It stands to reason that the POTUS is extended the same courtesy.
This 'sample' should be reprimanded.

Joe Wilson of the party of death warrants.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13369913

The incident that occurred in Congress by Rep. Joe Wilson R-NC, illustrates the consequences of a blurring line between illegal immigration and health care. Our politicians have been alerted to the angry voices of the American people. For once they have disregarded the business campaign contributors and all the cloaked gifts given for services rendered by special interest lobbyists. Millions of US citizens are enraged with the status quo buying favors from our representatives that has led to our wilting economy. Today speaking on behalf of Washington committees on health care, the lawmaking emphasized that illegal aliens cannot access the new health reform package, that any person applying will be checked through government databases.

E-Verify might be implemented for this very issue, that it has shown in the majority of cases remarkable successes in remove illegal alien workers from the working environment. E-Verify can solve this problem and bring sanity back to immigration enforcement. E-VERIFICATION OF EACH AND EVERY AMERICAN WORKER MUST BE MADE PERMANENT? NOT JUST VOLUNTARY POLICY, BUT AS A FULL FORCE OF OPERATION CARRYING STRICT PENALTIES. This operation will work under federal policies? But what about state laws? California as an example is a Sanctuary state for millions of illegal immigrants and their families? Other border states are also occupied by large proportions of unlawful populations of foreign nationals?

This last year has culminated in huge financial losses in California caused by millions of low income illegal aliens, which has created a third world community within the United States. There must be federal measures to bring under control, massive spending benefits for people who have no right from benefiting from those who come here legally or were born here. How can any public health care option work at a state level, when states like California ignore federal law, regarding financial refuge to indigent people? Our own people remain homeless and in many cases without hope, when legislators have prioritized, health care, education an overloaded jail system and easy welfare money for illegal immigrants?

The once golden state has been using taxpayer money, to support illegal aliens, when the same expenditures should have been adopted for a collapsing infrastructure. Highways, schools, tunnels, bridges and dams in a dangerous state of disrepair? Our legislators in many cases have been seduced by lobbyists and should be banned from any contact with our politicians. This will never happen, but something must be done? Millions have been spent on derailing the health care reform currently and in the past, as has immigration enforcement. Rescinding 287(g) federal training for local police enforcement of immigration laws, the NO MATCH LETTER and the cutting back on ICE raids on obnoxious businesses using foreign workers.

The order to crush E-verify was given to Sen.Harry Reid, Speaker Pelosi, Janet Napolitano, but narrowly survived in the Senate chambers. Both political parties are equally to blame for not enforcing the 1986 Immigration Control & Reform Act that was inundated with fraud and a desire to weaken the laws. Now they want to rescind that law, offering yet another reform package that will never function? Let’s not kid ourselves! Huge veiled forces are at work to import as much cheap labor as possible with no restraints, lowering wages and an unconscionable burden on taxpayers.

DON'T LET THE POWERS IN WASHINGTON WHITEWASH THE FACTS! DEMAND THE ORIGINAL DESIGNED FENCE AND THE FULL IMPLEMENTATION OF E-VERIFY, 287 (g), THE SAVE ACT AND AS WRITTEN, THE 1986 SIMPSON/MAZZOLI BILL AND AMEND THEM IF NEED BE? NO MORE IMMIGRATION REFORM? DO THE JOB THEY WERE VOTED FOR? CALL YOUR POLITICIANS AT 202-224-3121 AND DEMAND THESE LAWS BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE? MORE ANSWERS FOUND AT NUMBERSUSA & JUDICIAL WATCH.

The section of the bill shown here would be much more meaningful if it had an enforcement clause. You know, a system for CHECKING whether someone is here legally or not. Like the one that got proposed and rejected.

Not that I have a problem with illegals (I have a problem with welfare and taxes and dishonesty, but...)