by Mark Silva
Sen. Lindsey Graham, the South Carolina Republican who was heckled - indeed called a "traitor'' - at a town halll-styled meeting back home this week, insists that the GOP will not be "the party of the angry white guys.''
Nor will it be "the Ron Paul Party,'' Graham said.
Ron Paul said George W. Bush was a war criminal, Graham complained - "you are too,'' one of the Paul supporters heckling Graham told the senator.
The "Tea Party'' protesters were out in force as well - complaining that Graham and others are RINO's, "Republicans in Name Only.''
While Paul disavows the heckling of the senator, he says, "but for him to turn that in and say that... everybody who's upset with the government and upset with his type of voting record are angry white people or white men, that is.... preposterous.
"That's a real insult,'' Paul told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "But let me tell you, if anybody comes to our rallies -- and I continue to hold them -- we get thousands of people out and there's a lot of angry people there.''
Here, courtesy of CNN's The Situation Room, is a conversation with Paul, the Texas congressman who sought the Republican Party's presidential nomination on an anti-war, libertarian platform last year, on the protests afoot this year.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": One Republican says this about some other Republicans -- and I'm quoting him now -- "We're not going to be the party of the angry white guys."
Why is Senator Lindsey Graham saying that?
Let's talk about that and more with our senior political analyst, Gloria Borger; Republican strategist Kevin Madden; our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley; Arianna Huffington of The HuffingtonPost.com; and Republican Congressman Ron Paul. He's here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Congressman, thanks very much for joining us and the entire panel.
I'm going to play the little clip of Lindsey Graham. He was in South Carolina, Congressman Paul. He was heckled by some of your supporters. And this was the exchange.
It's hard to hear, but we've got the words up on the screen, as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I'm not going to leave the Republican Party, I'm going to grow it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, right.
GRAHAM: We're not going to be a party of angry white guys.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's time to change it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ron Paul will grow it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ron Paul!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ron Paul will grow it.
GRAHAM: We're not going to be the Ron Paul party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right. You -- you got the -- you got the gist of that, Congressman. He says he doesn't want to be the party of the -- "We're not going to be the Ron Paul party" was what he said at the very end.
I wonder if you want to react to your colleague, Lindsey Graham?
REP. RON PAUL (R), TEXAS: Well, my first reaction would be what does he have against the constitution and the supporters I have support me because I'm a traditional conservative and I defend the constitution. And I place every vote I can depending on the constitution.
Somebody should ask him what does he have against that and why does he vote for TARP funds and the bailout funds and -- and carry taxes (ph) and all the big government things?
Why -- why does he support Obama in expanding the war?
Why does he support The Patriot Act?
These are the things that constitutional conservatives don't support and we want to hold the Republicans to their -- what -- the things they think they believe in or say they believe in. They believe -- they claim they believe in limited government and that's what we're all about.
BLITZER: Congressman, I -- I want everyone on the panel to -- to weigh in, as well, and ask you a question.
But you don't want your supporters out there to be heckling a senator like Lindsey Graham in the midst of his presentation, do you?
PAUL: No. I think that goes against the grain. But for him to turn that in and say that -- that everybody who's upset with the government and upset with his type of voting record are angry white people or white men, that is -- that is preposterous. That's a -- that's a real insult.
But let me tell you, if anybody comes to our rallies -- and I continue to hold them -- we get thousands of people out and there's a lot of angry people there.
But I'll -- I'll tell you what, it's very diverse. And anybody who wants to challenge me on that should come to our rallies.
But to try to paint our group into that corner, it's just wrong. But you're right, I think decorum is very important and I try to protect against that and urge not to participate in it.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Congressman, it's Gloria Borger here.
Do you think you represent the Republican Party more than Lindsey Graham?
PAUL: Well, if you did a statistical vote today, probably not. But that isn't necessarily the right question. The right question is what should the Republican Party believe in?
Should the Republican Party follow through on their promises and their platforms...
BORGER: Or...
PAUL: ...of limited government and personal liberties, a strong national defense without perpetual war and without, you know, an unconstitutional Patriot Act. Just because you get a majority vote doesn't mean that you should give up on your rights and your constitution.
So I have no idea how it would come out. But I'll tell you what, I'll bet you the vote would come out a lot closer right now if you compared the supporters of Lindsey Graham to Ron Paul than it was two or three
years ago, because in the Republican Party, they're angry and upset and they want changes. And there's quite a few.
And the one thing that nobody seems to pay attention to is that why should they run us off?
We're the ones who reach the college kids, the young people.
How many Republicans really reach the teenagers and the college kids?
Those are the people that are gathering at our rallies and, you know, they have to ask why.
What are they going to do with the -- with pandering to the old country club Republicans and acting like Democrats and bailing -- and bailout funds and TARP funds. And these kinds of things just won't -- won't
hold up for the Republican Party. That's why the Republican Party has been losing.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Congressman Paul...
PAUL: And we're suggesting that they -- that they live up to what they profess to believe in.
CROWLEY: Congressman Paul, it's Candy Crowley.
I think the larger issue here is, if you take the personalities out of it, that politics, as you know, is a lot about image. And here we are in a time when the economy is terrible and people are in real need. We are in two wars with American lives at stake. And that requires the federal government to take some action and spend some money.
Does it not look and has the Republican Party now -- yourself and others -- not become vulnerable to the imagery -- the imagery, at least, of the party of no -- no. No money for this no money for that, no money for that?
PAUL: No.
CROWLEY: And how do you change that image?
PAUL: Well, we'd have to change your questioning. This idea that we're a party of no or we represent no, we represent free markets, sound money.
Take, for instance, our bill that we have pushed and I've introduced to audit the Fed to get to the bottom of this. This idea that you prefaced your question by saying the government -- the Congress has to do
something. Well, it's because the government has been spending too much, borrowing too much, printing too much, interfering too much, regulating too much.
So maybe we -- the government ought to be doing a lot less.
But I have every single Republican in the House of Representatives supporting my bill. And there are 30 senators who also support this bill. And 125 Democrats in the House support this bill. I would say that is doing something -- getting to the heart of the matter...
BLITZER: All right...
PAUL: ...trillions of dollars by the Fed being spent...
ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: Congressman...
PAUL: ...and there's no auditing.
BLITZER: Arianna, hold your thought for a second.
Arianna is going to come into this conversation in a moment.
Congressman Paul, don't go away.
Kevin Madden is here, as well.
We'll continue our conversation.
We're just getting started with Congressman Ron Paul and the best
political team on television.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're back with the best political team on television and Congressman Paul of Texas. Arianna Huffington is here, as well, from HuffingtonPost.com.
Arianna, I want you to get into this conversation with Congressman Paul. This is your chance to ask him a question. You've heard his point. And he makes some really passionate arguments.
HUFFINGTON: Yes. Congressman Paul, you mentioned the bill that you have co-sponsored with Congressman Alan Grayson, a liberal Democrat.
Also, in Afghanistan, you are basically in agreement with another liberal Democrat, Senator Russ Feingold.
So do you think that it's becoming obsolete to keep looking at American politics through this filter of right versus left when, on so many critical issues, there are many strange bedfellows these days?
PAUL: Oh, I think you're absolutely right. I try to avoid it all the time. I sometimes resent it when they call me a right-winger or somebody else goes and calls somebody else a left-winger.
I look at intervention or non-intervention as a general principle, whether it's overseas, in our personal lives or in the economy.
But the thing that should bring us together is our constitution. And -- and the constitution does. If you believe in the constitution and follow it, lo and behold, you believe in civil liberties. You don't want to run people's lives. You don't have the authority to police the world and run the world. And you don't have the authority to run the economy.
So, this, to me, is the rallying point. And if we have disagreements, then we change the constitution. But no, there -- I work in the Congress just like I demonstrated, you know, with my bill to audit the Fed -- progressives and liberals and socialists and libertarians and conservatives all say yes, we should have oversight. We should find out what they're doing.
And we can bring together -- freedom brings people together as long as we're not judgmental and tell people how to run their lives or what their religious values ought to be.
And we certainly don't need to be doing this around the world. And right now, I really am distributed by the support that the Republicans give to Obama's war in Afghanistan. He wants to expand it and people like Lindsey Graham are urging him on to do more and more. And we have no right to be there. We need to bring our troops home.
BLITZER: Congressman...
PAUL: We don't need that kind of...
BLITZER: Congressman, Kevin...
PAUL: ...of brush-up.
BLITZER: Kevin Madden is a Republican strategist. He's here and he'd like to weigh in, as well.
Go ahead, Kevin.
KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, Congressman, as a party, we always flourish when we talk about what we're for and we talk about a more modernized agenda that we for the American public.
Don't you think that we need to do more to talk about what unifies us as a party and not talk about our limitations and what we disagree on in the party?
PAUL: Well, do you think you should maybe pass that message on to -- over to Lindsey and (INAUDIBLE) because he hasn't exactly welcomed us in.
In some -- some places, they do. They invite us in. And I think you're absolutely right.
And -- and that's why I'm such a strong defender of individual liberty and the constitution, because it isn't a negative thing. It's very, very positive. And you find your answers, whether it's monetary policy
or foreign policy or domestic policy.
And I just think that that is an absolute good piece of advice that we should do. We should try to bring people together, discuss the issue and show what we're for. And I am strongly for the principles I think
the Republican Party have claimed they're for -- for freedom and individualism and free markets and sound money, no -- no special interests and Eisenhower said no military-industrial complex.
So I think these are things that I'm for -- strongly for...
BLITZER: All right...
PAUL: But the real principle that we have to be for is individual liberty.
BLITZER: Congressman, I know you've got to go. You've got other activities up on Capitol Hill. We're going to let you go.
Comments
I'm an angry white guy too. For 8 years, I was enraged as I watched Bush and Cheney stretch the bounds of Presidential powers to unprecedented levels, and I watched both Democrats and Republicans roll over and play dead as they did it. I'm less angry now. But never in that 8 years did I refer to Bush as Hitler, I did not scream at rallies and tote my rifle around with a smirk on my face knowing that it frightens people, and I have studied history so I know what the terms socialist or nazi actually mean. I'm angry that people can't be civil to one another. I'm angry that people read a quick internet article and call themselves informed, or hear a pastor with an opinion and take it as the word of God. So, the anger goes both ways.
Posted by: Grandblvd03 | October 15, 2009 10:28 AM
Things don't look good for the republican party. The Palin and RR part of the base, the Ron Paul republicans, and the Tea Baggers will tear this party apart.
Posted by: bill r. | October 15, 2009 10:36 AM
They are birth twins, Representative Paul and Senator Graham. Don't let the showbiz skits, fool you. They talk out, of each side, of the same mouth, one that is forever dissembling, distorting and of course, misrepresenting. That is all the Republican-Libertarian party has to offer America. While naked, uncontrollable greed is on full dispay in America, today, all the Republican-Libertarians can offer America is a cup of tea. Shame on all of them, but most of all, shame on the cast of buffoons, masquerading as their leaders !! America needed you, and you were out, counting your ill-gotton gains !! She will not soon forget your malfeasance, all of you !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.
Posted by: Don Fitzgerald, IL | October 15, 2009 10:42 AM
The ever so angry, ever so white Congressional Republicans are demanding an investigation of Muslim Interns on Capital Hill. Perhaps they'd like the scary Muslim interns all to wear a yellow Crescent in thier shirts so that we can keep track of them.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28283.html
Posted by: McCarthy lives! | October 15, 2009 10:55 AM
The only angry white guys you'll see fighting are Dodd, Reid and Baucus when it comes to health care and the "public option."
Baucus pulled a fast one with his accounting tricks to get the ball rolling, but the left in the dem party will only sign on with a public option...this should be good ol' geezer fight behind closed doors.
Paulo
Posted by: Paulo | October 15, 2009 11:09 AM
Well written Grandblvd. I feel the same way. There are so many people out there acting like they are so well informed, and they just keep parroting the same lines that they hear over and over from the same old loud mouth buffoons on cable TV. People, this is your country...it's time to take a real interest in how it's being run and stop listening to talking heads. Especially those on Fox News.
Posted by: Brian | October 15, 2009 11:15 AM
The question begs to be asked:
Is the Constitution the basis for any and all federal power?
If the answer is yes then we've got a very large group of people doing unconstitutional things up on Capitol Hill.
However, if the answer is no then where does the federal government derive its power?
I suppose that I fall in the AWG class, although I'm certainly not a racist or a bigoted. I'll admit that I am angry. I'm tired of paying taxes to a bunch of idiots who waste the money on so many levels. I'm tired of people wanting a nanny state to take care of them. I'm still waiting on anyone to show me how the federal government's track record supports the contention that universal health care ran by the Feds will stand any chance of being a valuable service.
I think that the problems this country is facing are because we've let the politicians convince us that they can do better than we can. I hope that people will begin to realize that fixing the problems starts at your front door, not in Washington.
Posted by: David Rairigh | October 15, 2009 11:44 AM
Graham is wrong! We're not going to be the party of sneaky, elitst, canniving, totalitarian, big government white guys who have contempt for their constituents! We're not going to be the party that supports the lie and scam of the claim of anthropogenic global warming with the punitive, draconian, destructive "remedies" that are proposed to curb it. These measures will amount to genocidal manipulations that will impoverish and kill. This at a time when we are going into a prolonged period of global cooling following a warming period that was not anthropogenic and is over. The days in power of collectivist fossils like Graham are numbered. They will be voted out! The republican party needs to represent its base faithfully.
Posted by: David | October 15, 2009 11:51 AM
Ron Paul is the only politician that adheres to the Constitution, Liberty and Freedom.
He didn't send your kids to fight and die in illegal wars.
He didn't vote to wire-tap your phone and read all of your email.
He didn't vote to allow the torture of people.
He didn't vote to support increased taxation or taxation at all. He wants to abolish the IRS and you saps have to select McInsane and Palin for candidates?
Posted by: Bistian | October 15, 2009 12:22 PM
It's hilarious to watch the GOP self-destruct. They should form a joint venture with Islamic extremests. No room for any disent, disagreement--however minor--or questioning. Just follow the wing nut crackpots--or else. Sounds like Socialism, or the Nazis. How's that for a turnabout?
Posted by: gibster | October 15, 2009 12:36 PM
I don't know he got manipulated into attacking his core constituency.
A Mass Governmental Ejection is coming and he seams to yearn for the list.
Posted by: anon | October 15, 2009 12:56 PM
Ron Paul is an ideologically pure libertarian. The problem with that is that for all the stupid talk by the average stupid Republican, they actually are not libertarian at all. They support interventionist wars; they don't want to eliminate most of the government as presently comprised, which indeed is what a true libertarian believes.
That of course is why "statistically" -- as in the votes he did not get in last year's primaries -- Paul is not representative of the Republican party.
The problem I have is the shouting idiots at Graham's event are manifestly too stupid to know what they're talking about. One can virtually guarantee, to each and every fatted oaf in that room, that they worshipped George Bush, his awful wars and his utter disregard of fiscal responsibility. Paul, of course, was consistent in his opposition.
I'm no libertarian but I believe in liberty and thus respect much of what Paul has to say. I certainly respect his principles and ideological purity, even if I don't share his disdain for government.
Give these strident clowns ten minutes and they'll find something else to hate. Unlike Paul, they're not smart enough to have an ideology. Graham just got that lesson.
Posted by: a blinkin | October 15, 2009 12:57 PM
What policies are neo-cons like Lindsey Graham advocating? Perpetual War around the globe and tax cuts for the rich. In other words, national bankruptcy.
Posted by: Josiah McGuffog | October 15, 2009 12:58 PM
Uh, Don. The very Paul supporters you lambast happen to hold (and have held, and are the only large faction of anyone from EITHER party who do) the exact same position you do of getting the hell out of dodge. Lumping Paul in with Limbaugh or Palin is like lumping Bush in with Cindy Sheehan.
Posted by: Nadorn | October 15, 2009 1:06 PM
Ron Paul is a proponent of peace, prosperity, liberty, sound money, and sound government, all while fully embracing the Constitution with every single vote. Gee, we don’t need THAT in the GOP. Ron Paul is the leadership this party needs and people are starting to wake up. They see our miserable foreign policy, our inefficient domestic policies, and they are starting to see the FED as the enabler that it is. THATS how our gov’t spends $1 for every $.50 it collects in taxes, by slowly destroying our wealth at the benefit of the few. Well we have had it with this course to serfdom and we have had it with faux conservatism and the trivial debates of the uninformed. An awakening is taking place and while it may take years to come to fruition, it is most certainly there and growing despite what the Lindsey Graham’s of the world are sayng. Consider YOUR party hijacked, sir
Posted by: AmericanDreaming | October 15, 2009 3:17 PM
To poster Don Fitzgerald,
It is interesting that you are so against Ron Paul, yet you want the troops brought home. Ron Paul stated throughout the campaign, and still says, that we should end the wars and bring the troops home.
Obama on the other hand just deployed additional troops to Afghanistan.
Most of what is printed about Ron Paul is hyperbolic nonsense. Read the things he has written, read the bills he puts forth, read his voting record.
Most people want the things that Ron Paul has fought for, they just don't know he is fighting for those things.
Peace.
Posted by: Barbara | October 15, 2009 5:46 PM
@American Dreaming:
Ron Paul is a proponent of peace, prosperity, liberty, sound money, and sound government, all while fully embracing the Constitution with every single vote.
------
Controversial stands, to be sure. What's his position on Mom, warm puppies and apple pie?
Posted by: a blinkin | October 15, 2009 6:10 PM
* * * * *
Posted by: Barbara | October 15, 2009 5:46 PM
.
Nice try, Barbara, but the effort you expend trying to reason with Don is wasted. He’s been told many times that Libertarians are opposed to the use of military force to achieve political or social goals, the constitutional violations of the kind practiced by Bush and Co., and the big government, spendthrift ways of the Democrats and Republicans in Congress. He still insists on lumping all Republicans and Libertarians together. It’s better just to ignore his loony ranting.
Posted by: John W. | October 15, 2009 8:11 PM
Geez, the Grand Olde Zombie Party turns cannibalistic.
Hilarious.
Posted by: C.Morris | October 15, 2009 8:56 PM
"Give these strident clowns ten minutes and they'll find something else to hate. Unlike Paul, they're not smart enough to have an ideology. Graham just got that lesson.
Posted by: a blinkin | October 15, 2009 12:57 PM"
Oh yeah, Blinky. And they are all about imposing their views on other individuals, from legal drugs to abortion rights to gay marriage to what books are on the library shelf.
It's only libertarianism for them; nobody else.
Posted by: C.Morris | October 15, 2009 9:09 PM
What got into Lindsey? Somebody slip him an electric brownie?
Posted by: BlueBirdWhisperer | October 15, 2009 9:14 PM
We're not the Ron Paul Party, we're the Timothy McVeigh Party. We don't need no guvmint, we have our guns and religion to cling to:
.
Wiki--
McVeigh was known throughout his life as a loner; his only known affiliations were voter registration with the Republican Party when he lived in New York and a membership in the National Rifle Association while in the military.[11] Despite the former, McVeigh self-identified as a libertarian in a statement that was reported by MSNBC.com and The Washington Post;[12] and while in federal prison, he voted for Libertarian candidate Harry Browne in the 1996 United States presidential election.[13]
Posted by: Angry White Dude | October 16, 2009 12:53 PM
"Ron Paul is an ideologically pure libertarian. The problem with that is that for all the stupid talk by the average stupid Republican, they actually are not libertarian at all. They support interventionist wars; they don't want to eliminate most of the government as presently comprised, which indeed is what a true libertarian believes.
That of course is why "statistically" -- as in the votes he did not get in last year's primaries -- Paul is not representative of the Republican party.
The problem I have is the shouting idiots at Graham's event are manifestly too stupid to know what they're talking about. One can virtually guarantee, to each and every fatted oaf in that room, that they worshipped George Bush, his awful wars and his utter disregard of fiscal responsibility. Paul, of course, was consistent in his opposition.
I'm no libertarian but I believe in liberty and thus respect much of what Paul has to say. I certainly respect his principles and ideological purity, even if I don't share his disdain for government.
Give these strident clowns ten minutes and they'll find something else to hate. Unlike Paul, they're not smart enough to have an ideology. Graham just got that lesson."
You are exactly right about Republicans today, ablinkin. That behavior you described is quintessential Democratic Party behavior. Republicans today are every bit the war mongerers and collectivists that the Democratic party in this country has long been. If you look back, you will see this is true. Woodrow Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt (I know that Teddy was a Republican but he started the "Progressive movement"). Franklin Roosevelt. Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson. All were statist/collectivist war mongerers. George W. Bush and Barack Obama both very much fit that mold, as does the majority of Congress today, without regard to being a Republican or Democrat.
Posted by: Liberty and Freedom | October 16, 2009 1:14 PM
* * * * *
Posted by: Angry White Dude | October 16, 2009 12:53 PM
.
I’m not saying that you are wrong about the party with which McVeigh “identified” or the person for whom he voted. But McVeigh was mistaken in believing that his views and actions were consistent with Libertarianism. Libertarians oppose the initiation of force to achieve political or social goals. Those seeking to join the Libertarian Party are required to certify their opposition to the use of such force. (If you poke around the national LP Party’s web site, you will see this mentioned a number of times.) That provision was put in the party platform with the intent to exclude bomb throwers. Had McVeigh tried to join while saying, “Hi. I believe in liberty, and I can blow up buildings to make us free,” he would have been shown the door. McVeigh may have been an angry white boy, but he was no Libertarian.
Posted by: John W. | October 16, 2009 2:45 PM
How did McVeigh, a hapless dupe who took the fall for another inside job, get into this?
Having been involved at the core of the Republican support for Paul's nomination in Indiana, his nomination would have been an absolute coup for the return to the rule of law folks in this country. The outlaws who doctored the rules by breaking their own rules in the GOP in state after state is how he was denied the nomination. They knew that if he had the nomination it would have made Reagan's margin look small and the difference would have been so vast as to not permit enough tinkering with numbers at the booth. The GOP is rotten from the core at the top. No guts and much worse. Both parties are bought and sold on a daily basis and maintained merely to give the sheep something to talk about with Rush and Hannity.
Posted by: Jimmu | October 17, 2009 1:02 AM
The proof is in the puddin'.
The last prez. candie from the LP was Bob Barr of all people.
I'm sure he supported legal abortion, legal drugs, all books in the library, separation of church and state, sexual freedom of all sorts.
The guy can't even handle a loaded gun.
Bad puddin'.
Posted by: C.Morris | October 17, 2009 8:15 PM