9/11 plotters bound for trial in New York

Big mistake guys....this will be ONE BIG FREAKIN MISTAKE.

I would expect no less from this administration.

Andy McCarthy has written the underlying Obama/Holder agenda. These 9/11 show trials are a payoff to the Bush-haters and Obama's Leftwing base:

"We are now going to have a trial that never had to happen for defendants who have no defense. And when defendants have no defense for their own actions, there is only one thing for their lawyers to do: put the government on trial in hopes of getting the jury (and the media) spun up over government errors, abuses and incompetence. That is what is going to happen in the trial of KSM et al. It will be a soapbox for al-Qaeda’s case against America. Since that will be their “defense,” the defendants will demand every bit of information they can get about interrogations, renditions, secret prisons, undercover operations targeting Muslims and mosques, etc., and — depending on what judge catches the case — they are likely to be given a lot of it. The administration will be able to claim that the judge, not the administration, is responsible for the exposure of our defense secrets. And the circus will be played out for all to see — in the middle of the war. It will provide endless fodder for the transnational Left to press its case that actions taken in America’s defense are violations of international law that must be addressed by foreign courts. And the intelligence bounty will make our enemies more efficient at killing us."

Posted by: Change in 2009--and 2012 | November 13, 2009 12:25 PM

I see you have diarrhea of the mouth again.Since you're so good at changing the subjet, how does it feel to know you've been supporting abortions for the last 20 years?

Hey scottie, abortions are cheaper than welfare. Now back to the subject at hand. Care to make a case for this moronic decision other than pure pandering to leftists? Maybe you can justify the idiotic premise that the military should follow the legal protections afforded US citizens when engaged in combat overseas. This is nothing more than a sham trial designed to weaken our intelligence services and by proxy the Bush administration. Just another example of the adolescent in chief pandering to terrorists and appeasing our enemies.

Hans...this would be similar to the Omar Abdel Rahman trial except for the fact that you didn't have the 183 waterboardings to deal with.

Posted by: bill r. | November 13, 2009 4:50 PM

Thanks Billr. How soon these right wing nuts forget.
I guess Hans was sleeeping during that trial zzzzzzzzzzzz.......

Hey scottie, abortions are cheaper than welfare.

Posted by: Hans | November 13, 2009 3:42 PM

Nice Hans (or is it Terry), and what exactly is that supposed to mean? Care to elaborate?

..

Of all the nonsense and BS this shaministration has foisted upon this country, there is no doubt this is about the worst. And once again, this shaministration shows it cares more about the terrorists than it does this country and the American people. And once again, this shaministration and its loony followers on the Left show that without a doubt, the Left is about the worst mankind has to offer.
This will become nothing more than a show trail. The terrorists and their lawyers will do nothing but attack the U.S., demonize the U.S. and demonize the Bush administration (which the Loons on the Left will love) and open NY to even more acts of terrorism. These terrorists are not criminals who deserve the same rights as Americans (heck, they aren't even American). They are combatant militants and should have their fates decided by the military, not a court of law. And for the jury selection, who is exactly will be the jury of their peers? Ooops, sorry, their peers in the jury will be the loons on the left.

Posted by: John D, still right, as usual | November 13, 2009 7:16 PM

Ya talk about Shaministration Johnny, hows that RNC healthinsurance covering abortions working out for ya?

Anything that comes out of your mouth from now on is so moot! There is no credence to anything you or your red faced party has to say at this point! You guys are toast!

Ohhh, Scotty, the party that is toast are the Demoncraps. They lost big in Democrat New Jersey and Virginia. Polls show that independents are abandoning the Demoncraps faster than those did on the Titanic. It's the Demoncraps who are toast. Then the real Americans who make this country work and make it great will round up all you worthless scum and put you on garbage barges out to sea where you belong!
And, Scottie, for your benefit, you might want to stay away from those far loony blogs on the left.

Scottie,

I don't hide behind aliases, especially debating a twit such as yourself.

The federal court building in NYC has just become a nice al Qaeda target.

Idiotic.

Obama and Holder just gifted al Qaeda with a propaganda platform worth $80 million in free publicity.

Here's a flash:

A lot of precedent is going to have to be reversed to get convictions of some of these folk:

In Chicago, when the torture techniques of Commander Burge were investigated, what happened to the convictions?

Well, they were vacated, weren't they?

Not enough independently derived "untainted" evidence to sustain them.

Plus, prosecution was being punished for police misconduct.

Here, contrast Bush prisoner abuse to the Allies' treatment of the Nazi high command at Nuremberg.

Goering, etc. You remember those guys, right?

(OK, maybe you don't because you're an illiterate slacker or Gen X or Gen Y and don't know anything about American history, in which case you need to educate yourself.)

Anyway , Justice Jackson got convictions of most of the Nazi high command without waterboarding and torture.....

Now, there is an International Court of Justice which runs more like the Nurenberg.

I guess Eric couldn't take a chance on an international tribunal.

Because the Nazis were not abused by the Allies the way the Gitmo prisoners were by Bush.

Funny, isn't it?

Roosevelt and Gen. Marshall won WW II.

Bush just wrecked the American economy and did far more damage to America than Osama bin Laden ever dreamed of wreaking.

Obama waits until Friday to make the annoucement plus leaves the country. Nothing
like being available to explain
your actions. The word coward comes to mind...

Hey guys we have these people they need to be adjudicated. You guys are forgetting this is the United States of America we don't hide behind anything. If we made some mistakes so what bring them into the open. If we didn't make any mistakes even better. The rule of law must take president over all. When we have an administration that hides from the rule of law it hurts us more than anything our enemies can do.

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Okay, let’s put them on trial in an American courtroom, shall we? Let me tell you what is going to happen.
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If they ever get indicted, most of the defendants will make motions to dismiss on (at least) due process grounds. They have been held for years, and that time interval has allowed the government to amass a large amount of evidence against them in a manner that contravened the Fifth Amendment (even if it didn’t constitute torture). SKM has a special axe to grind because he was subject to torture - which resulted in the production of a evidence against him and others. Coerced verbal evidence is inadmissible against anyone regardless of whether the Miranda rules apply. It is deemed too unreliable to admit in a U.S. court. Furthermore, as a result of the lengthy, multi-year delays, most, if not all, of the defendants have probably lost chances to obtain witnesses to call in their favor - either because the witnesses are now beyond their subpoena power, their whereabouts are unknown, or because they are dead. Pre-indictment delay which results in ‘prejudice” - including the loss of evidence or witnesses for the defense - is a ground for dismissal on due process grounds. I can’t imagine any competent lawyer foregoing these claims.
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There will also be massive discovery requests and wars. This will expose difficulties the prosecution has in disclosing secret information. The prosecution has a duty, independent of any request, to disclose any exculpatory evidence - that is, any evidence that has a reasonable tendency to exonerate the accused. If the government refuses to disclose such information for any reason (including the preservation of state secrets) and, depending on the extent of the refusal, the case could well be dismissed as a sanction for non-disclosure. It is upon this ground that Senator Stevens and Ollie North got off scot-free.
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If the case survives all of those challenges (and anything else that pops up), the case will go to trial. Unlike a military tribunal, the prosecution cannot rely as much on hearsay evidence, and especially the hearsay statements of interviewed witnesses who are not available to testify at trial. Admission of such statements would violate the defendants’ rights to confrontation and cross-examination under the Sixth Amendment. Confrontation problems might also require the government to try each defendant separately. That’s because the introduction of co-defendants’ confessions, admissions or post-conspiracy statements would also violate the Confrontation Clause. As a result, the government might have to transport, and have testify, any Afghani or Pakistani who provided evidence necessary to the case. By the same token, the government might have to arrange to transport a significant number of Afghanis or Pakistanis to testify on behalf of the accused because it is obvious that all of the defendants are without means to do so themselves. This is going to be expensive. All of this is going to be a lot of trouble. And, needless to say, picking a jury in New York is going to be next to impossible.
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And, yes, a good portion of the defense will be directed at putting the government on trial. The defense has the right to have the jury separately assess the voluntariness of any alleged coerced statements even if the judge rules the statements admissible. The defense has the right to challenge the dimming of memories and the bias of witnesses (including the rewards they may have received for their cooperation). Many of the alleged cruelties and mistakes are relevant to the accuracy and reliability of the trial. Cross-examination may bring to light evidence that could require disclosure of other information the government may not be willing to reveal.
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These are the costs of an accurate and fair trial. To say that we want less or different is to hope that the defendants receive a trial prone to produce inaccurate results. That is something that none of us would hope for if we were on trial in a foreign country.
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All the same, I have to wonder whether Holder and his underlings aren’t being a bit too optimistic in believing they have enough “untainted” evidence to get convictions against these men in a civilian court. Their miscalculations could effectively give these people a martyr’s status in the Muslim world - or the keys to the jail.

Here is how a real president did it:

http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/politics-lounge/9390821-1.html

Now if the child in the office now would only grow a pair.

Obama & Holter & anyone else involved in the decision to try these terrorists in NYC vs a military tribunal in Gitmo need a thorough mental/psychological evaluation. What could these idiots & treasonous fools be thinking. Have they no sense of decency? Not to mention the sheer ignorance of such a move. These terrorists do not deserve to be given the same rights as Americans, it is ludicrous & a slap in the face to all the families who suffered and still suffer as a result of what these animals did. After all I've seen and heard about BHO since his reign began, he is a gutless, egotistical, thoughtless, socialist, American hating jackass, to say the least. A pox on BHO & any one who supports this idiot.