Americans should 'rebel:' Hatch on health

The conservative Taliban speak. Take up arms against fellow Americans for what "we" believe is right.

Rebel, indeed! It's time to rebel against a century of (to use the latest buzzword) dithering. Or is this another in the long, sad history of "do-nothing" congresses?

A Republican senator is urging the American people to rise up and try to overthrow their own government in a time of war? All because he doesn't want Democratic voters to get health care? Not very patriotic...

http://www.political-buzz.com/

I hope that the media and the public are offered sufficient time to review this proposed legislation.

I hope that the claims that this legislation will not add to the deficit and the national debt are factual.

I would love to see the enabling legislation requiring the savings from waste, fraud and abuse in Medicare be immediately introduced and passed, but I doubt the lobbyists and special interest groups will cooperate,

I am a skeptic and after much trial and error I no longer trust our elected public officials.

My wife who works in the hospital industry said she read the proposed healthcare bill yesterday and it said that a family that makes over 102k a year will have to pay $15,000 a year to be enrolled in the government insurance program. She claims that many companies would drop the private insurance plans because it would be cheaper just to pay the fee and have their employees join the government program. We're middle class, and if this happens we're in financial trouble. Ain't that ironic.

We are rebelling. We're rebelling against nearly 30 years of cozy relationships between insurance companies and the medical industry, and the result of this rebellion will be health care reform that includes a public option to offset the exhorbitant costs and restrictive rules of their policies.

George Bush told us all you are either with us or against us. Orion Hatch (R-UT) is telling us to rise up and rebel against the administration and government. Not only is that unpatriotic of Hatch, it's traitorous given we are a country at war (wars on 2 fronts). Not only is Hatch unAmerican, he also reeks of racism and bigotry.

bill r.,

By Rebel, Hatch doesn't mean a bloody revolution. He is talking about nonviolent protesting in the streets. He hasn't said it, but I believe if it passes with the abortion covered we'll see tax revolts. If you're against abortion and you pay taxes, you're funding something you believe to be murder.

bill r.--perfect at 11:15 AM--the conservative American Taliban is inciting others in America to harm those who a majority of voters approved in '08. "Pray for his death" , "rebel", and "hope he fails" are irresponsible things for fundamentalists, politicians and media personalities to be advocating.
When Bush was committing his atrocities against citizens of other nations and against Americans, we were yet, to a greater degree, still respectful of the office of the President of the USA--and handcuffed--while the right wing called us "unpatriotic" as THEY continued to hide behind the troops-for-oil in Iraq that THEY failed to protect.

I find it amazing that anyone can take seriously the demented ramblings of those who claim that public-option healthcare is somehow an attack on our "freedom" and "rights," but not only did they not lift a finger against, they voted in favor of the PATRIOT Act which did, expressly and categorically, actually limit rights and take away tangible freedoms.

What's even more amazing than that is that there are people out there who are either dumb enough, or so self-important, that they actually accept this exploitation and shill in favor of these charlatans. It's really sad to see how easily pathetic wage slaves can be exploited to shill against their own self interests using blatantly hypocritical canned arguments.

These people don't want solutions; they want scapegoats. This is what is wrong with America.

I would love to rebel. How does he suggest we do it? Congress is going to pass what ever it takes to please Obama. The only rebellion we have is vote all of them out of office. Of course the damage is done by then.

I fail to understand the Republican mindset. They sit on their hands, stage wacky protests and contribute nothing to any kind of constructive dialogue. Pointing out the size of the bill without telling the public how it compares to bills of similar scope is just fear mongering. Has Hatch actually read the bill? does he have anything useful to say regarding the bill?

Hatch is right; something long and complicated like the health care bill or books just can't be good. We should only support things that we know for certain are true without needing to give it much thought. Things like invading foreign countries whose population will greet us as liberators and whose oil supplies will mean we wont have to spend a dime of American money to pay for the invasion or occupation. Hatch-Palin 2012!

Can any one name one program out of DC that has not two, three, and more times higher then they said it would? Stop blowing smoke up our behinds and tell the real cost.

This is just what we need...more Obama spending in the midst of a recession. History has proven that raising taxes during periods of economic stress and contraction always worked out well. When will Obama learn that higher tax rates are always passed on to the middle and lower class through reduced wages, benefits and workforce? Most I have talked to have serious buyer's remorse about electing a pretty face and elequent speaker that has zero substance.

Another Republican fomenting insurrection....what a surprise!

Pat H said: "I hope that the media and the public are offered sufficient time to review this proposed legislation."

Pat H., That cracks me up. The average rube isn't smart enough or interested enough to read past the first section heading of the legislation. In spite of the constant blathering by the public, the average dolt doesn't care, nor has sufficient knowledge or intelligence to analyze or understand the issues. If people could be so easily misled to believe that nonsense about "death panels," or a bunch of blue-hairs can be ranting for the government to "keep their hands off [their] Medicare," it's quite obvious that the average person doesn't even have the BASIC knowledge to even begin to analyze the legislation.

It's kind of funny how the dumbest people in our society are also the most full of themeslves. The moment you ask the average "outraged" buffoon to do any WORK on their own part (which would include reading and analyzing the legislation), you lose them. Unless you can dumb it down to platitudes, buzzwords and empty rhetoric, everything in the bill will go right over the average American's head. We are not nearly as intelligent as a society as we try to fool ourselves into thinking we are.

Please, you are giving the people of this country FAR, FAR more consideration than we've earned.

Interesting that Obama makes a point that the bill will reduce the deficit by $127 billion over the next 10 years but says nothing about the tax increases required to achieve the savings. Once more, for the record; healthcare insurance is a commodity, NOT a right. There is no logical reason that I should pay for someone elses healthcare insurance. Let the insults and name calling begin....

Yep, first step is to cut out health care for all of Congress.

Second step, increase taxes to cover war spending to eliminate the deficit. Funny to watch the Republicans scream about less taxes and more troops if they must pay for it.

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Posted by: bill r. | November 19, 2009 11:15 AM
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You have a tin ear for words, bill. He said “rebel,” not revolt. Not all rebellions are revolutions, and not all are seditious. One would not abuse the word ‘rebellion’ by using it to describe the protests movement against the Vietnam war in the ‘60s and ‘70s. The dictionary definition of “rebellion” includes, “An act or show of defiance toward an authority or established convention.” Nice of you to always assume the worst of people.

I'm sure Sen. Hatch's constituents knew exactly what he was talking about when referencing the length of War & Peace (except, of course, for the parts about length and peace)...

I will NEVER trust a bill passed by a Congress that won't accept the resultant plan as their own healthcare plan. Just like social security...which none of them partake in. Yes, we are going to SAVE billions by covering 31 MILLION MORE people. Keep smoking that hopium.....

People need to wake up and see this bill for what it is: payback. The unions have overextended themselves with promises of benefits that they can not keep. This is their bailout. This is ALL about payback (like EVERYTHING with this administration) for getting Teleprompter elected.

Senator Hatch is worse than useless. He defends our incredibly expensive, wasteful, inefficient health care (ranked 37th by the UN; France is #1), and he fights to keep millions from having coverage or receiving medical care. Rebellion? We should rebel against him and his insurance company pals.

Orin - you have a better plan??? time for these - old racist terrorists to retire. Their ideas are the ideas of GWB and we all know what that result is.

I have 7 kids, if this bill goes through,we will most likely lose our health insurance through my husband's company, we cannot afford the public option. We will be the new uninsured.

Racism!!!!

Racism!!!

Maybe Orrin ought to opt out of the government healthcare plan he has now.

Posted by: ec76 | November 19, 2009 12:01 PM
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You Teabaggers are so stupid. There is already a Federal law on the books, the HYDE AMENDMENT bars the use of Federal funds for abortions. You are being tricked by your corporate masters. A public option CANNOT cover abortions because IT'S PROHIBITED BY THE ABOVE MENTIONED FEDERAL LAW. Gosh you rubes are so easily fooled. Look it up before you puke out talking points.

Simple Minds Abound,

To you include the media in your statement?

President Obama made clear statements regarding transparency in government during the campaign.

It is obvious that Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid ignored his promise to have the crafting of this bill accomplished on C-Span, instead it was done behind closed doors.

Speaker Pelosi failed to allow the media the 72 hours that Obama promised with her version.

I am just hoping that Senator Reid provides enough time for those interested to review these 2,000 pages plus.

Who knows what we will find! Is it possible that there is some earmarks for lobbyists or special interest groups buried inside this?

I will NEVER trust a bill passed by a Congress that won't accept the resultant plan as their own healthcare plan...
Posted by: Pam | November 19, 2009 12:42 PM
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EARTH TO RUBE....EARTH TO RUBE...
The Public Option is for people who don't have insurance...Can't afford it or don't qualify. Congressmen/women have insurance. Sheesh you people are fools.

Interesting that Obama makes a point that the bill will reduce the deficit by $127 billion over the next 10 years but says nothing about the tax increases required to achieve the savings. Once more, for the record; healthcare insurance is a commodity, NOT a right. There is no logical reason that I should pay for someone elses healthcare insurance. Let the insults and name calling begin....

Amen Chicago Al. Here is a thought from a taxpayer...Let insurance companies cross borders (not allowed by legislation!!!) so there is more competition among them. Illinois has, I think, 5, maybe 6 major medical insurers...why not 20???!!! North Dakota has only 1 health insurer...No competition there! For example, Car insurers can cross state lines and there is resulting competition. Another idea. Make "losers pay" the other sides expenses in tort litigation. By doing so, the plaintiff bar will have to do some homework before just suing someone. That should eliminate some of the "defensive" medicine practiced by physicians. I am NOT in favor of limits on verdicts. Legitimate plaintiffs should have their day in court and be compensated fairly and equitably. Why is there no fee structure for physicians services and pharmaceuticals???!!! they get to charge what they want (Ooops, I forgot...they are gODS)
HOW. ARE. THEY. GOING. TO. PAY. FOR. IT????? Silly me...I forgot...they gov't will just print more money!!! That is brilliant!!! More debt load...great! When has the gov't ever demonstrated the ability to control costs???!!! If they want to make a believer out of me, show they can knock down the Medicare debt...they haven't been able to do it as of this writing and I just don't believe politicians when they say they will...

You have a tin ear for words, bill. He said “rebel,” not revolt. Not all rebellions are revolutions, and not all are seditious.
Posted by: John W. | November 19, 2009 12:36 PM

To you or I john, I don't think you could disagree that there are probably quite a few who don't know the difference. That's the point.

chicagoAl:
(snipped) Once more, for the record; healthcare insurance is a commodity, NOT a right. There is no logical reason that I should pay for someone elses healthcare insurance. Let the insults and name calling begin....(end snip)

Read the preamble to the constitution for the answer as to why we pay for things which may not benefit you directly or which you may or may not approve of.
Then ask yourself how the big insurance lobby came to be involved in deciding who lives and dies in America. It is not OK for the healthcare industry to become involved in medical decisions which should involve the physician and patient only but they so as a matter of rooutine and why ? For profits.
For it's shareholders. Meanwhile, our economy is in ruins and people continue to die because of a lack of insurance:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/chi-ap-us-med-injuredanduni,0,6005477.story

because it's too costly or their employer doesn't offer it or they have pre-existing conditions. The lack of healthcare access or affordable insurance has caused bankruptcies and foreclosures and has affected everyone of us in one way or another. This simply must stop now or America will never recover economically.

straintouseyourbrain:
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You Teabaggers are so stupid. There is already a Federal law on the books, the HYDE AMENDMENT bars the use of Federal funds for abortions. You are being tricked by your corporate masters. A public option CANNOT cover abortions because IT'S PROHIBITED BY THE ABOVE MENTIONED FEDERAL LAW. Gosh you rubes are so easily fooled. Look it up before you puke out talking points.

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The anti-abortion movement is being used by the healthcare big biz lobby to do their bidding. End of story.

Regarding the so-called "public option", the CBO reports for both the House and Senate bills that premiums for the public option would be higher on average than premiums for private plans. Here's the House analysis, see page 6:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/106xx/doc10688/hr3962Rangel.pdf

Here's the recent Senate bill analysis, see page 9:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10731/Reid_letter_11_18_09.pdf

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I thought the idea behind a public option was to keep private insurers honest. I thought implicit in that reasoning was that the public option would cut out the profit motive, have less administrative costs, and could thus pass along lower premiums. But the CBO says the premiums would be higher. So my questions are as follows: If the CBO analysis is correct, and the public option will cost more, then:

1) How does the public option charging more for premiums pressure private insurers to keep their premiums down or "keep them honest"?, and

2) If the public option is not putting pressure on private insurers to lower premiums, then what is the point?

Chicago Al stated . . . "healthcare insurance is a commodity, NOT a right."

Are you serious? You honestly believe that all Americans are not entitled to health care? So you are perfectly OK with, let's say, your oldest and dearest friend dying from a very treatable disease because he did not have insurance? The "every man for himself" mentality is what screwed up this country to begin with, and it's people like you who need to wake up and realize we are all in this together. The gap between the haves and the have nots is way to wide and we all suffer because of it.

It's good to know that Hatch recommends rebellion. For some reason, Republicans did NOT recommend rebellion when Republicans were in office, although Democrats did it anyway. I'm pleased to be vindicated by a Republican against Republicans who said we were Anti-American (some who said we weren't even Americans at all) or traitors, that people who disagreed with and rebelled against their government were more dangerous even than terrorists. Obviously that wasn't true, because a Republican has said what we did (rebellion) is good. You can trust Republicans, you know, because they wear flag pins and talk about how great they are.

I'll keep Hatch's remark in mind, to be used when Republicans come back into power. I'll also keep in mind the Republican mantra of "turnabout is fair play," so that we can make use of THAT, as well. I recall somebody having said they'd hate to see what Dems are like if they made use of "turnabout," and I agree with that person whole-heartedly.

You WILL hate it. BELIEVE me, you'll hate it.

:Chicago Al . "healthcare insurance is a commodity, NOT a right."

wakeupandsmellthecoffee:
Are you serious? You honestly believe that all Americans are not entitled to health care? So you are perfectly OK with, let's say, your oldest and dearest friend dying from a very treatable disease because he did not have insurance? The "every man for himself" mentality is what screwed up this country to begin with, and it's people like you who need to wake up and realize we are all in this together. The gap between the haves and the have nots is way to wide and we all suffer because of it.(end)

People like ChicagoAl believe themselves to be special human beings and thus worthy of special treatment and benefits in order to reinforce their own belief system that they are superior.How sad. Someone needs to remind him that no man ( or woman) is an island and that being of a lower socio-economic group is not a contagious disease and finally, be careful how you treat people on your way up; you just might run into these same people on your way down.

After reading the comments of Leftists on this blog, I can understand why they'd want someone else to pay for the medication they so obviously need.

Solutions, Solutions, Solutions. My argument is that the gov't, whether Rep or Dem has not been able to control costs. I think most of the people who believe gov't should provide "healthcare" have an entitlement mentality. Enough of the whining.

Why won't GOV'T consider more insurance competition, meaningful tort reform (very simply put, "losers pay") and the extent to which I think go'vt interference SHOULD BE involved, controls on what physicians and Pharma charge??? Those are SOLUTIONS!!! How many times have you been asked (before they inquire about your illness) BY A DOCTOR "are you insured"? Their billing practices are incredible! They blame the plaintiff bar for them practicing "defensive medicine"...There is no other industry in the USA (since the Reagan administration) that has had a rate of inflation as high as the medical community (around 12% per year)

Do you know why legislators don't want to control Physician fees? VERY powerful lobbies from the American Medical Assn and the American Bar Assn. Speaking of the latter, many of our legislators are lawyers. Do you really think they want to hurt the boys and girls in their "club"??? By enacting tort reform, many lawyers would be out of work!!! I am not demonizing lawyers. I believe there is a need for them...really. that said, there some who don't adhere to the "elements of tort law" and create frivolous lawsuits. Those type of suits drive up not only medical insurance, but car insurance, etc...LOSER PAYS THE OTHER SIDES EXPENSES WHEN YOU LOSE A LAWSUIT!!! The UK has "loser pay" and no where near the number of lawsuits filed each year. I could go on and on and on, but I have to go back to work to pay taxes for the folks with entitlements on their mind!

Oh yeah...and for the "WriterofWrongs".... I have read the Preamble. Perhaps your interpretation of the preamble, and more specifically the "general welfare" line which you may have had in mind, is a bit skewed. Please see the following...

welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being.

Welfare in today's context also means organized efforts on the part of public or private organizations to benefit the poor, or simply public assistance. This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution.

This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution.

This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution.

Get it???

What is better than 1,990 pages of worthless Socialist Crap? How about 2,075 pages of worthless Socialist Crap. Give the democrats credit for being relentless in their war on the American economy. This worthless crap will easily be 3 to 5 times the $849,000,000,000 that Controller Reid claims.

The Runaway Train to Hell is reaching critical freight speed. 60 democrats in the U.S. Senate = Snake Eyes Amerika, unless Joe Lieberman, maybe, has one of his saner moments. The other so-called Blue dogs are still, after all, democrats.

Thanks tim@11:52 a.m. Only thing lacking, Amerika, would be a finishing dose of butyl-hydroxytoluene (BHT).

What the HELL? Senator Orin Hatch, Senator Joe Lieberman, and Blackburn should all take a hike. The insurance company's have all of them in their back pocket. Joe is so hungry for the press exposure he will jump in any direction to get it. It is time for everyone in the Senate and Congress to step up to the plate and deliver for this nation, instead of the insurance company's. Remember the republicans never do anything for this country, they only do things to this country! whiteagle38

I pay health insurance for my family and it costs me about $300 a month. Will the healthcare bill pay for my health insurance? OR is the government basically going to steal from me and take my tax money to pay for I Don't Want To Work & I AM Entitled Joe's health insurance?

The government has no business in healthcare. Health is not some commodity which can be delivered by government and the more a bureaucracy sticks it nose in the private concerns of citizens regarding issues of life and death the more we are likely to see problems.

http://healthjournalclub.blogspot.com

phillip:
The government has no business in healthcare. Health is not some commodity which can be delivered by government and the more a bureaucracy sticks it nose in the private concerns of citizens regarding issues of life and death the more we are likely to see problems.

Then I suppose you are against VA Hospitals and medicare ?

Remember that if this passes, we all pay for it several years before we can get anything (your part in funding a disaster healthcare fix!). This is meant to drive people to the government option which will open up your medical records for sharing on the net/country. The co-op option will be more expensive than private insurance and all meant to herd the people to turning their care and review of/if care for the final decision of treatment to the government option; and if you don't think that is a fact, it's been leaning that way from the beginning. The overhaul does not yet include a "doctor fix" and doctors could simply decide not to take medicare. It would probably turn into social medicine, which probably was meant from the onset. It would become like England where it takes months to see a doctor because each doctor that stays in practice would have so many patience that the ER rooms would be buzzing 24/7. And then, if you think this is attractive to the current group of medical student, think again. This would not be equitable for them, after all their years of study, to make a good living even though they might have specialized in something that you might need yourself, down the line.

If you call that American, you've become a lemming and have been wooed into giving up your right to free choice. As if being out of work isn't enough, you'll get fined for not having insurance. Somehow, this is reminding me of Jim Jones' followers.

You don't think that they expect the regular citizen to read these 1000's of pages and understand the legaleze contained in them; have you? Between work and school, I sure don't have the time or the inclination because if you separate your patriotism from being a democrat, this should be a bipartisan fix and the parties seem to be of totally different beliefs. Use your brain instead of your party. And I also assume that you are within the tax bracket or pay scale where you will not see a big raise in your taxes to pay for healthcare for all, which turns out not to be for all, anyway. If you leave 1 out, there must be many. We're a big country. Think before you slander people as unAmerican. We all are and this is the tip of the iceberg. The finally tally is nowhere close to what Harry Reid picked out of a hat.

After reading the comments of Leftists on this blog, I can understand why they'd want someone else to pay for the medication they so obviously need.

Posted by: Speaking Truth to Power | November 19, 2009 3:56 PM

WINNER OF BEST COMMENT.

So, they will get government healthcare to pay for their medical Marijuana. It's treatment for their Bush derangement syndrome.