Senate climate bill moving without GOP

It's NOT a "Climate bill".
It's a TAX bill.
Which will raise taxes and otherwise impose costs on us ordinary folk, using the excuse of doing something about "the climate."

Get used to this. After the recent gubernatorial elections, a message has been sent to the Democrats. They're going to try to jam ANYTHING through they possibly can before the 2010 elections because they know "change" is coming.

Is this is the cap and trade bill that is supposed to be a tax but the bill contains provisions that allow congress to give away 85% of the carbon credits for free? Please tell me it is not. That is a flawed bill that no fiscal conservative or green thinker should get behind.

Hey Bruce - you may not care about "the climate" because you'll be dead by the time things get really bad. On the other hand, the rest of us are going to have to live with it. Give us a break.

Yeah, that is the right idea, let's worry about taxes, as we choke on deadly air-pollution !! There is that wrong-headedness that caused the Republican-Libertarians to lose a House seat that they "owned" for over 100 years. You won't choke on your taxes, if your a real, good, tax-evading American, but we will be choking on our air quality, but we'll let our children worry about that reality !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BEING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

In the continuing energy crisis of the 21st century, the story doesn’t end with this year’s sub-$100 oil and sub-$5 natural gas prices. Hydrocarbons are still essential in supplying global energy needs and will be at least through 2030. Ethanol requires taking 1.6 gallons of the energy equivalent of gasoline to make 1 gallon of ethanol. It involves making a subsidized fuel from a subsidized crop. Wind power makes natural gas yet more essential for base-load power supply. Wind power is expensive, unreliable and won’t reduce demand for natural gas. To increase the use of hydropower, we must build more mountains. Oil and gas remain the primary energy sources supplying 87% of U.S. energy demand 40 years ago and supplying 87% today. What Congress and the president need is a calculator. There are no alternatives to hydrocarbon energy resources in the foreseeable future.

Great. This way the Democrats can claim full credit for (1) Doubling everyone's home electric and gas bills; (2) Killing tens of thousands of jobs in American industries that will now move overseas; (3) Devastating the nation's coal industry; and (4) Doing nothing to reduce greenhouse gases.
And to think we're stuck with these
fools until 2010.

Yet another dimocrat tax sham run down the throats of the sheeple public.

Premise:
If global warming causes temperatures to raise then the polar ice caps would melt.
If the polar ice caps melt, the ocean levels would rise.

…and if the oceans rise that means….that they will rise so far that we will all drown

But let’s think logically…

Assuming increased CO2 emissions really do cause raised global temperatures:

If C02 emissions rise
which cause global temperatures to rise…

And rising global temperatures cause polar ice caps to melt….

Then raised global temperatures would cause more evaporation of water from our oceans…

And more evaporated water would lower the ocean levels back down and would result in more clouds in the atmosphere…

And more clouds in the atmosphere would reflect back more ultraviolet rays from the earth back into space…

And more UV rays reflected away from the earth would result in…….

…Cooler global temperatures!

In other words, the earth is a balanced ecosystem that goes through cycles and rhythms with checks and balances that act as a huge global “eco-safety valve”. Any warming of the earth would trigger the very mechanism that would cool it back down again! As ocean levels might rise due to melting ice caps, so too, evaporation would increase thus lowering the oceans, keeping the right balance.

Once the water in the clouds returns back to the ground, it would allow more UV penetration and thus increase the temperature, keeping and maintaining the earth in a temperature range that sustains life. Think of it as a huge global, geo-biological thermostat!

Is this overly simplified? Sure. But so is the theory of global warming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York's_23rd_congressional_district

Last Democrat rep from the NY-23rd was Michael McNulty, from 1989-1993.

Nice going, Don.

The provisions in this bill would mandate an reduction in our economic output. Who in right mind would be in favor of that?

Read up (if you're able) Loonie Lefties
-
Global Warming: The All-Purpose Farce to Control Your Life
-
http://townhall.com/columnists/KevinJames/2008/01/21/global_warming_the_all-purpose_farce_to_control_your_life?page=full&comments=true

What a joke! Here we are again, letting the UN dictate policy to us. May as well start that One World Government already....

Once you realize the connection between environmentalists and population control, you're eyes will be opened....

Worshipping the Creation, and not the Creator....

Hate Monger Don - have you been to China lately? how about South America? Mexico?

Knock that chip off your shoulder, it's eating you alive!

By the way, the tax-evading Americans you speak of have been given CZAR positions in the Obama White House you bafoon! They sit right next to the Evil Lobbyist's in the Oval Office Meetings with Obama!

Who in their right mind believes in the scientific proof of man made global warming?! Should we protect ourselves by reducing the pollution we put into in our environment? YES. Should we do this under the pretense of bad science? NO. I've always believed that party loyalists of Republicans tend to be ignorant and those of Democrats tend to be stupid. This bill reinforces this belief.

Hey Bruce - you may not care about "the climate" because you'll be dead by the time things get really bad. On the other hand, the rest of us are going to have to live with it. Give us a break.

Posted by: Stan | November 5, 2009 11:23 AM

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Tell us all Stan - what date will that be again? when things get really bad?

On the other hand, you might consider along with Don, the evil's the Global Community and their "caring about the climate". I'll ask you the same question as big Don - been to China lately, South America, Mexico?

Heck have you even taken the time to actually read what is being proposed or are you, like Don, a faithful sheeple willing to spend your last dollar on a political Wizard of Oz right before he leads you off the cliff? simply because you hate Republicans.

It's going to take a whole lotta lotta Ex-Lax to move these Republicans for anything other than their own agenda. I say we just forget about them. They don't make any sense any more anyway.

Stan, the climate will be just fine 50 years from now, 100 years from now, 200 years from now. This bill will not help the climate. Now, if you have some sort of control over the sun, planet, solar system, then by all means do what you can.

Now,the real question is: Why is the Demoncrap party so hell-bent on destroying the U.S. economy and the U.S. as a country?

Boxer is in clear violation of Senate rules.

Why can't you republicans think past your money bags. Ronald Regan took out the solar panels on the White House. bush couldn't be bothered to attend any of the envoronmental conf. You still insist on drilling off-shore instead of investing that $$ in renewable fuels. You spend millions of $$ trying to get people to disbelieve the reality of global warming so your buddies in congress can continue to get $$ from oil and coal companies. What is wrong with you people?

Don showing your ignorance again?

Atmospheric CO2 is not a pollutant; it's plant food.

These liberals are out of control...
See "Will the Left Try a Kamikaze Rush?" at
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/will_the_left_try_a_kamikaze_r.html

Have fun greater Chicagoland, because you don't (well maybe some of you do) know what's in store for you if this little environmental baby becomes law. Senators like Inhofe say it's already DOA. If not, your cost of living eventually will make it almost too costly to live.

Wow-somebody let the crackpots out of their little padded rooms. Watch their heads explode.

It's about time we move forward without the soon to be Bull Moose (aka GOP) party. They're just obstructionists anyway.

Hey ignorant Adolph. Do you actually read or just get talking points faxed to your insane asylum? Two Republitard victories were for Govs...not much say on national legislation. Two House contests were both won by Dems (one hasn't been a "D" seat for more than 100 years!) much more impact on national legislation. Screw the retards, er Republicans and let the grown ups get things done.

Great. This way the Democrats can claim full credit for (1) Doubling everyone's home electric and gas bills; (2) Killing tens of thousands of jobs in American industries that will now move overseas; (3) Devastating the nation's coal industry; and (4) Doing nothing to reduce greenhouse gases.

Posted by: Delano | November 5, 2009 11:43 AM
;
This is a prime example of the ignorance Democrats are up against. Democrats criticize Republicans and President Bush for actual things that DID occur and were actually DONE to America when we adopted GOP programs. Now, with the help of Glenn Beck, paranoid Republicans are criticizing Democrats for things that they claim WILL happen but have NOT become REALITY in any way.

"Never waste a good crisis." Hillary Clinton

The whole myth of so-called greenhouse gases has been debunked time and again, yet it makes for good news copy. Lord Christopher Mockton supplies ample scientific research presented in the following lecture: http://mnfreemarketinstitute.org/2009/10/22/new-monckton-presentation-video-includes-slides/

Citizens of this great nation have historically been sensitive to an overly intrusive government -- until recently. Original anti-Constitutionalists (aka anti-Federalists, which included Patrick Henry, Sam Adams, George Mason, Richard Henry Lee, and arguably Thomas Jefferson) who preferred the Articles of Confederation were wary of a powerful central government that would usurp the rights of individuals and states for its "greater good". I think the original Federalists (which included George Washington, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, and James Madison) would take our current government -- of both parties -- to the woodshed for both its monstrous growth and for its ceding of American sovereignty to foreign and malevolent powers.

"At the close of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on September 18, 1787, a Mrs. Powel anxiously awaited the results, and as Benjamin Franklin emerged from the long task now finished, asked him directly: 'Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?' 'A republic if you can keep it' responded Franklin." (cf. http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2000/cr020200.htm) I dare say we have so marginalized the document that we are in danger of becoming, not a monarchy, but a dictatorship.

Franklin also said, "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." Giving the government still more control of our lives through cap and tax and through so-called health care reform are exemplars of Franklin's intent for this quote. Liberty-minded Americans should oppose them vigorously.

I see many posts on both sides of the issue. Most against this bill are providing rational arguments for why it is bad. Most for this bill are mindless name callers to those against it. What else is new? There is a vacuum of ideas on the left, so let's name call. Here's the facts. There is no proof of man-made global warming (now changed to climate change as the Earth has cooled the last 10 years). The natural changes to the climate far outweigh our impact on it. For the economically challenged out there (mostly on the left) here is what is going to happen. India will continue to burn oil and coal to fuel its industries. China will continue to burn oil and coal to fuel its industries. The U.S. will either cut back production of products and services to lower its carbon emmissions or will use alternative energy sources costing 2-3 times as much as coal or oil or even nuclear which the mindless left is also against. This will make us even less competitive in the world econimy and cause millions of more jobs to be shifted to India and China further reducing our standard of living and making China and India the next super powers of the world. Great idea Boxer and Obama!

WOW REALLY the dimocrats think this is going to help.

And what about the Little Ice Age and the Medieval Warm Period. Did anyone on the left even think about this stuff?

When this raises energy prices beyond endurance, the fix will be additional government subsidies for those who qualify.

In short, this will play out as another scheme to redistribute income from those who are productive to those who are not.

"Never waste a good crisis." Hillary Clinton

The whole myth of so-called greenhouse gases has been debunked time and again, yet it makes for good news copy. Lord Christopher Monckton supplies ample scientific research presented in the following lecture: http://mnfreemarketinstitute.org/2009/10/22/new-monckton-presentation-video-includes-slides/

Citizens of this great nation have historically been sensitive to an overly intrusive government -- until recently. Original anti-Constitutionalists (aka anti-Federalists, which included Patrick Henry, Sam Adams, George Mason, Richard Henry Lee, and arguably Thomas Jefferson) who preferred the Articles of Confederation were wary of a powerful central government that would usurp the rights of individuals and states for its "greater good". I think the original Federalists (which included George Washington, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, and James Madison) would take our current government -- of both parties -- to the woodshed for both its monstrous growth and for its ceding of American sovereignty to foreign and malevolent powers.

"At the close of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on September 18, 1787, a Mrs. Powel anxiously awaited the results, and as Benjamin Franklin emerged from the long task now finished, asked him directly: 'Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?' 'A republic if you can keep it' responded Franklin." (cf. http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2000/cr020200.htm) I dare say we have so marginalized the document that we are in danger of becoming, not a monarchy, but a dictatorship.

Franklin also said, "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." Giving the government still more control of our lives through cap and tax and through so-called health care reform are exemplars of Franklin's intent for this quote. Liberty-minded Americans should oppose them vigorously.

The federal government fought against states taxing federal entities in McCollough vs. Maryland (1819). In it Chief Justice John Marshall contended (borrowing from Daniel Webster), "The power to tax necessarily involves the power to destroy." He referred, in that case, that states taxing a federal bank could be used to destroy those banks. In like manner, each federal tax destroys state and individual liberty, usurping our freedoms for itself. See http://mises.org/story/1853 for a further discussion on this.

the article forgot to mention that our entire Nation is moving forward with the GOP.

The federal government fought against states taxing federal entities in McCollough vs. Maryland (1819). In it Chief Justice John Marshall contended (borrowing from Daniel Webster), "The power to tax necessarily involves the power to destroy." He referred, in that case, that states taxing a federal bank could be used to destroy those banks. In like manner, each federal tax destroys state and individual liberty, usurping our freedoms for itself. See http://mises.org/story/1853 for a further discussion on this.

Funny how back when the Earth experienced a minor cyclical increase in temperatures a decade or so ago, the phenomenon was called Global Warming. Back then, the alarmists seized upon every hot summer day as proof that Global Warming was real, that it was certainly caused by human CO2 emissions (or other “greenhouse gasses”), and that we must change our ways now, or face immanent catastrophe.

But in recent years, temperatures have been declining. So the alarmists have changed the name of their proposed disaster to Climate Change, and argue that temperature decreases are not climate, but rather are merely weather, and that any cooling is merely temporary and not indicative of any pattern. The alarmists argue that the failure to distinguish the nuance between weather and climate is itself evidence of the deniers’ lack of sophistication.

And when confronted with evidence that the Earth is cooling, they somehow spin this fact into evidence that the Earth is getting warmer. This is pure sophistry.

The alarmists can’t win their argument on the merits, so they resort to ad hominem attacks against anyone who didn’t drink their Climate Change Cool-Aide.

The alarmists want the Nanny State to have another excuse to meddle in our lives by passing cap and tax, so they can redistribute society’s resources in such a manner as they see fit. In better economic times, we could afford these silly social experiments. But with unemployment around 10%, we can ill-afford their job-killing nonsense.

You can’t have it both ways, knuckleheads! You break it, you fix it. Enough whining about higher taxes and the rest of the talking points. Be responsible and pay for what you use. You like clean air and water, you have to pay for it. Period. Jeez!

No computer model that is used to claim global warming is happening has come close to predicting the climate for the last 12 years, with every one predicting global temps significantly higher than actual.

No computer model, using 1976 data as a baseline, has accurately predicted the climate for the last 33 years, with every one overestimating temperature change by over half a degree or more, and none predicting the leveling since 1998.

Currently, the largest windmill generator in the world, a 400 foot tall tower with a 400 diameter set of blades, and costing $15,000,000 each, can generate a peak output of 6MW (megawatts), with an average output of 2MW.

According to the Dept of Energy, the peak demand for the US in 2008 was 1,080,000MW, with a 18% reserve.

To generate an average output of 15% of the peak electric demand, we would need 81,000 (eighty-one-thousand) of the largest windmills currently available, costing $1,215,000,000,000.

Of course there would be discounts, but we are talking at least $800,000,000,000.

These are just windmills.

It would be nice in someone woudl realize this.

Don't worry. The country is remembering why they hate the Left in general and the Democrats in particular. After the 2012 election the damage done by these enemies of the United States will be rolled back.

Why do people think that the Dems or GOP will fix the problem? They are adding to the problem.

Case in point: Al Gore's mansion uses more energy in 1 month than most people use in about a year. He pays carbon credits to a company HE owns.

There are no formulas that exist to determine the cost. The cost per carbon credit is made up. Thus Carbon Credit companies can charge what they want per carbon credit. Then take into consideration that there are no regulations on what they do with that money or how much they need to spend replenishing the environment. Therefore if you think politicians will ignore the fact that money can be made by "global warming", then just wait for the next major catastrophe once global warming is a thing of the past.

A little experiment you can try yourself... take a glass of water, put some ice in it, fill it up with water. Then watch it. Does the water in the cup ever overflow the cup? NOPE... why not? Because ice displaces water, when the ice melts the amount of water it displaces is reduced, thus allowing the newly melted water from the ice to fill the previously mentioned displaced areas.

What does that mean? When polar ice caps melt in the summer months, it will displace less water, but what has melted takes that place. In the winter months, the ice is reformed, but displaces more water.

As Billy Mobbie said, the earth has it's own checks and balances.

Take a look at this article: http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/38574742.html

So those on the Left do not want jobs, but want to pay more taxes. Something is truly wrong with this picture!

Oh, that's right tax those that have money. Yep, good plan, NOT.

Welcome to the United People's Republic of America!

OK I'll bite! What's broken?

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You can’t have it both ways, knuckleheads! You break it, you fix it. Enough whining about higher taxes and the rest of the talking points. Be responsible and pay for what you use. You like clean air and water, you have to pay for it. Period. Jeez!

Posted by: RMDO | November 5, 2009 2:18 PM

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So, your talking points are........it's broken?

Wait! we have clean air and clean water don't we? I mean the USA has the EPA, Sierra Club and other national organizations that clean up polution, regulate industry to reduce pollution and incentives for industry to reduce pollution even more.

The USA has come so far with our environmental standards and laws that we have, as the largest industrialized nation on the planet, the cleanest air and water.

But I digress........please give us your talking points, please.

It's broke can't be accepted knucklelhead!

Hey, "Posted by: escaped from NY | November 5, 2009 2:20 PM "

Don't forget that these windmills could possibly pose a hazard to local wildlife populations ie birds.

Hooray for Barbara Boxer. Moving ahead without the Republicans is the only way to counter their obstructionism. Ms. Boxer seems to have learned from the healthcare bill clowning that listening to screaming and yelling is not productive.

We need a climate bill, and fast. If you teabaggers and whatnot can't partcipate sensibly then get out of the way. The fantasies that "the earth is really cooling" and other preposterous rubbish has had its day. No More Stalling. You lost the election and you don't have the votes to stop it.

How many in Chicago will DIE when the cost to keep warm in the winter is beyond them? Hopefully they will all be Obamacrats.

Worried about taxes and the cost of utilities. Try this on for size. The planet warms, the seas rise and the eastern seaboard has to move inland - climate patterns change and the midwest breadbasket cannot produce crops....I think we'll have more problems to face than what the utility bills are because the impact will be irreversible. Does anyone look (and think) more than 3 inches in front of their nose.... Over dramatic, perhaps....but no one seems to be focused on the problem. Only partisan bickering.

what a mess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Figures. they're going to really screw things up. Just wait and see

http://bit.ly/39oJo

so, the GOP isn't even showing up for work anymore? I'll take that as an improvement...

Check out this link on climate change facts - its not political for or against the tax bill - enlightening. The Global Warming Test:

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/start.html

Thank God for the intelligent insight made by some of these posters. To think I was going to believe the vast majority of the scientific community. All these whiners complaining about higher taxes and the burden it will put on future generations need to think about how their actions will impact future generations. You think its expensive to pay a few extra dollars in taxes, just wait until countries are fighting multiple wars over the dwindling resources left because people like you didn't want to pay a little more in taxes. The selfish mentality of people in this country is staggering!!

The latest UN report (which we can argue is by far one of the most liberal sources) suggests that sea level will rise by 2 centimeters by mid century (http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-chapter10.pdf). This is a far cry from the 50 million feet that Al Gore warned us about. Keep in mind the UN wants to be the global body for regulating climate change so their reports will tend to err on the side of catastrophe. Come on people WAKE UP. Realize that 2 centimeters is probably a gross overestimate considering what the UN has to gain from climate change. This info is taken from their own reports.

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Fed Up with Righties, why do you think your argument makes any sense? Al Gore made over $100 Million pushing his global warming/Cooling/Rainier/Dryer/climate change agenda. Who is making money off this again?
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Crooks_In_DC, I have brought up the "little ice age" (as well as other ice ages) and the "medieval warm period" many times and not one lib has responded.
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tom, I have also asked libs to explain why for the past decade the earth has been cooling. Still no response.
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escaped from NY, Even if they did cost $1,215,000,000,000.00 that would be still be $200,000,000,000.00 less than our deficit for 9 months. These numbers are beginning to look small to me.
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DRJ, Not likely. How many of the other "winner" projects have been rolled back. How many bureaucratic social services have been wiped out? How many agencies have been eliminated? Virtually 0. The damage that is being done as of late will likely not be reversed any time soon, if ever, regardless about how Americans feel about it.
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Springfield makes a good point. The best way to reduce pollution is for people to become more wealthy. That is true throughout the world. Why do you think poor countries have cesspools with water that can potentially kill someone, yet these are virtually non-existent in North America, Japan, Australia, and Europe? How about air pollution in Beijing or Mumbai? Land pollution in the former USSR? How will we reduce pollution by making people poorer?

More proof of Global Catastrophic Climate Change:

The leaves are falling off the trees in the Northeast US and the upper Midwest. We have to do something!

Owebama voters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSEaHyzbqTA

The democrats proposing a solution where there is no problem.

Bruce hit the nail on the head - this is a tax bill.

Didn't AlGore say we would only have 10 years left on the planet?

Anyone want a piece of that action?

Common Sense: Take the quiz. This "theory" is not supported by as many Scientists as you think. Climate change is occurring - but not from CO2. This bill is just a plain and simple tax.

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/A4a.html

Hey," pedroh10 ", or is it " Terry", or " Janet " or, Teresa ", or Bruce " or some other " missing link " !!? Any who, when you post a " link " that doesn't jibe with your claim, have the courage to own up to it !! Your nonsense about the 23rd district, in upstate New York, you know, the one, you ' victorious " Republican-Libertarians, blew in the elections, earlier in this week !! Here is a clear enough statement to disprove your claims, from your link, that you provided:
" The area comprising this district has historically been one of the most Republican in the United States. Most of the area in what is NY-23 has not been represented by a Democrat since the 19th century. A large portion, including the largest city, Watertown, has not been represented by a Democrat since the 1850s. In parts of the district, the last non-Republican Representative was a Whig.[1]
Its most recent representative, Republican John M. McHugh, resigned on September 21, 2009 to become United States Secretary of the Army. In the ensuing special election held on November 3, 2009, Democrat Bill Owens was elected to succeed him. "
Now, maybe you have an idea of how superficial your claims are, of what a great election night the Republican-Libertarians had, the other day !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

Posted by: Terry | November 5, 2009 7:09 PM

The democrats proposing a solution where there is no problem.

Bruce hit the nail on the head - this is a tax bill.
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And a job killer to boot. Wait until we see unemployment at 14%. The real unemployment is 17.5% as of today and will move even higher with this bill.

Don't stop there with the scare, kids of the Republican-Libertarian fringe !! Let's go with 25% unemployment, the level it was during the Great Depression. That is what it will reach, again, if America follows the minority party's line, to maintain the status quo or another brilliant tax cut for the wealthiest !! Come on, boys and girls of the Republican-Libertarian gaggle !! Honk if you want that tax cut again, for the wealthiest !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

Have no fear. The repugs will be the first to commandeer the airplanes and the helicopters to take them to warmer climates when we spin into a global warming ice age. And, they'll be the first to corner the markets on Ensure Nutrition Drink and Vitamin C to carry them through a few lean agricultural years.