Obama: Health-care 'game-changer'

The Fine Art of Lying

There are lies and there are lies. There are white lies, BIG lies, petty falsehoods, serious misrepresentations, gross prevarications, cowardly equivocations, major whoppers, silly taradiddles, and fibs.

The Obama administration has perfected and nuanced the execution of every variation of lie but none is more despicable than its lying about one of the two most contentious issues relating to Obamacare, abortion.

The other issue, of course, is that beast of many backs, the public option, the single payer option, the government option, all of which are no options at all since they will be part of the final bill.

Alternatively, that public option will, shortly after its passage, be covertly incorporated into Obamacare with as much clandestine sleight of hand Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Barack Obama can muster.

That advertised transparent triumvirate has evolved into the most opaque, secretive, and evil trio since Richard Nixon and his teutonic duo of H.R. Halderman and John Ehrlichman.

The opaqueness and secretiveness of this administration and its congressional cohorts has been apparent from the beginning to anyone not brainwashed and figuratively waterboarded; the closed-door, ultra-partisan, heavyhanded Democrat manipulation of Obama’s signature health care issue simply iced his opaque cake.

It’s admittedly extreme to bandy about the loaded word “evil” but when the political shoe fits it’s more than appropriate.

The Nixonian triumvirs were evil in their arrogant abuse and misuse of presidential power and perks.

The Obamians are evil in their totality, . . .

(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=1384)

"I said it had to be deficit-neutral,'' Obama says. "It doesn't just meet that criteria; it actually reduces the deficit." Save this quote for spring when the fertilizer is really needed.

It is deficit neutral since there are 10 years of revenue and six years of expenses. Also, it is deficit neutral due to medicare cuts within the bill that everyone knows will be reinstated in another bill and not paid for.

"I think the more choice, the more competition we have, the better,'' Obama tells Lehrer" _ I wonder if BO feels this way about gov'ts monopolistic stranglehold on education?

CONGRATULATIONS DEMOCRATS AND AMERICA!!!!

Get lost, Repugs...
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HAPPY HOLIDAYS, WINGNUTS!!!

CNN POLL: OBAMA'S APPROVAL RATING JUMPS UP TO 54% ON EVE OF HEALTH CARE BILL PASSAGE!

Some very exciting numbers coming in from CNN: Obama's approval rating is back up to a formidable 54%, with 42% of Americans now supporting the Senate's health care plan. Both of these figures are up dramatically from earlier in the month, when Obama's approval was at 48% and HCR was at 36%.

The trend is obvious: passage of the bill on 12/24 by the Senate will only further bolster these promising numbers for Obama and the Democrats in Congress, making prognostications of their doom from Left and Right a tad bit premature.

Most notable to me is that the increase in approval of the bill has come exclusively from Democrats, jumping up 10% from the most recent CNN poll. Despite the highly vocal progressive clamoring for killing the bill and blustery claims that its enactment will lose Obama his base for all time, it's now apparent that more unpopular than anything was the process, not the final product. Once the bill is passed and Obama's first major accomplishment is on the books, I think the Dems will cruise to a very comfortable midterm election and Obama will have plenty of capital to spare for the rest of his first term agenda.

Whether or not you approve of the content of the bill, the fact remains that Obama's base is still with him and he has shown the same patience and grace as an executive that he did as a candidate. We would never have arrived at this moment if he had fallen prey to the rabid 24/hr news (Faux News) cycle/blogosphere's microanalysis of every anonymous leak and Congressional development. I say congrats to President Obama and Leader Reid at getting this thing passed.
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http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/21/cnn-poll-6-point-jump-in-support-for-health-care-bill/
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"The Week" sums up Republican angst:

THE GOP's BIG HEALTH CARE 'BLUNDER'

"With Obama on the cusp of a historic health care victory, some Republicans are grumbling about a missed opportunity"
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http://www.theweek.com/article/index/104425/The_GOPs_big_health_care_blunder
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GOP F A I L!

"Evan Bayh! When you've turned the somnolent, relentlessly centrist Indiana Senator into a raging partisan, you've really done something. The Republicans eschewed a halfway compromise and put all their chips on an all or nothing campaign to defeat health care and Obama's presidency. It was an audacious gamble. They lost. In the end, they'll walk away with nothing. The Republicans may gain some more seats in 2010 by their total obstruction, but the substantive policy defeat they've been dealt will last for decades."
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http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-plank/the-republican-health-care-blunder
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The bottom line is that health care is a major accomplishment for the president and is something that will help a large majority of Americans.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Terry, I agree. I will believe the 500 billion in cuts to Medicare when I see it. The odd thing is that Medicare rates are already low, and providers make up for that by charging more to private insurance. This leads to higher premiums for all. Cutting Medicare rates even more will only make the situation worse.

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That is the bizarre thing about this whole health care debate. It is centered on the third party payer, whether it be private insurance, Medciare/Medicaid, or a public option. None of these plans focus on how to bend the curve on what providers are charging; only on how to pay for whatever it is the providers are charging. That reasoning implicitly assumes that the reason for high premiums is not cost of services, but rather is solely from outrageous health insurance industry profits. I know that has been the rheotric from the left, but I don't think the relatively modest average profit margins of health insurance companies support this position. I haven't seen anyone really connect the dots on how squeezing this margin is actually going to bend the cost curve on what providers are charging.

This is the greatest political figure of our age.

The nation was in a depression when he was sworn in on January 20, 09.

Progress is steadily being made on all the issues he addressed in the 2008 campaign.

And you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Good grief, Ornery, the nation was not in depression. One year ago, economists said the country would begin to come out of recession by the second half of 2009 -- BEFORE Obama became prez. Funny thing about coming out of the recession, though, is that at first the Commerce Department said growth in the 3rd Q was 3.5, then it became 2.8 and now they say it was 2.2. The job market still stinks. Incomes aren't rising like the experts thought. Spending isn't increasing like the experts hoped.
Anyway, this moron who is our president also is THE BIGGEST LIAR. Joe Wilson had it right. YOU LIE, Obama!
It is NOT deficit neutral. It DOES NOT lower the deficit.
The plan doesn't even take effect for another four to five years, so those folks who aren't insured still won't be insured in 2010, 2011, 2012 and even 2013. But the tax increases go into effect in 2010!
And the loons on the left just slurp up the lies like Kool-Aid!

Anyone who thanks that this bill will in any way reduce the deficit is brain. When has any program come out of DC that did not cost 2 to 3 times more than they predicted. First off they are passing the cuts to Medicare off onto the states. They are using stealth taxes (fees) and cutting services just so they can add to the bloated system that we call Washington DC. Just because the Senate passes their version of healthcare does not mean he will become law anytime soon.

Posted by: Terry | December 23, 2009 5:49 PM

Terry we all know that you guys on the right dont really think deficits matter since they never seem to bother you when your party has the lead. Name one republican who signed the Defict Reduction Act of 1993....ooops you cant because republicans dont believe in deficts either! ! You people are so full of BS.

In the election of Barack Obama, "in 2008, millions actually broke out of the grasp of those who prefer a world of haves and have-nots. A giant step was taken toward the Light of Community, of the Common good and the General Welfare. Bridge heads were established. A Way was opened, and a true leader, "a spirit linked with the Forces of Light", was elected president.

That there has been a vicious and highly orchestrated opposition to this step was to be expected. "Truly, when a large ship increases its speed the resistance of the waves increases too. Similarly, many obstacles are brought about by our own striving. It is this process that attracts to us unexpected actions by an opposing will."

Many of the individuals who responded to the awakening call are presently very upset by the current situation. They are feeling sold out and betrayed. These folks are not very far-sighted. Like inexperienced warriors, they expected the opposition to fold up after one defeat. This would not, could not happen. Further, the lines of power and involvement in this nation are deeply intertwined. "The soul of a nation is hidden, and he who represents the state must possess the whole synthesis of the nation." This leader is not trying to defeat anyone or anything. He is striving to synthesize the national Life. He is trying to bring the Soul of the Nation to the forefront of the Nation.

This is not done by using the divisive and corrupt power politics of the past, even if these are being used against him. It is done by enhancing, or growing the Light, by valuing and using the methods of the Soul, cooperation, co-creation, revealing the fact of the Common Good and the General Welfare. The will of the people, the deep love of liberty and freedom which characterizes the soul of this nation must be evoked into the field. This is the source of this leader's, of any true leader's power.

"If [the actions of the opposition] are very strong, our own counter stroke will develop accordingly. Now is the time for all of those experienced warriors of the Light who have a little foresight to double and triple their efforts to bring Light and Love into the fields in which we live and move, and have our being. We need to spread encouragement and hope and vision and love as we walk through the ranks of those who are involved in this mighty struggle for the Soul of our nation, and probably Humanity. As we go, we radiate what we are. As we move through the fields of our brothers and sisters let us be conscious beacons of triumph.

Tom Carney - January's Issue of Thoughtline"

Scottie,

The Deficit Reduction Act of 1993 had no GOP backing becuase it was the largest income tax increase in American history. Even Clinton had no faith in his "Deficit Reduction Act", otherwise he wouldn't have proposed budgets with $200 billion dollar deficits for as far as the eye can see, as he did in 1995.

The reduction of the deficit in the 1990's didn't occur until Newt and Company shoved it down Bill Clinton's throat. In January 1995 Bill Clinton submits a 1996 budget plan that calls for $12 trillion of spending over the next seven years and $200-billion deficits for as far as the eye can see. Even Washington Post reporter David Broder blasts the document as a "symbol of Clinton's failed leadership." Because of the debt Clinton is adding, writes Broder, "the annual net interest is projected to climb from $198 billion in 1993 to $270 billion in 1997 -- when it will, for the first time, be larger than the projected defense budget." It was Newt and the Conservatives that balanced the budget.

Nice try at re-writing history.

I don't like to be the bearer of bad tidings on Christmas, but the fact is:

we are in a depression.

and the President is trying his best to dig the country out.

It's way beyond semantics about "worst recession since...." whenever.

When General Motors and Lehman Bros. declare bankruptcy, we are way beyond the realm of recession.

A depression Obama has no responsibility for having created, but every responsibility for trying to overcome.

Does that sound like any other Democratic President who was elected in a landslide?

Berlet98,

You might enjoy reading an essay in Harper's entitled
"The Paranoid Style in American Politics" by Hofstadter64.

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Anyone who thanks that this bill will in any way reduce the deficit is brain. When has any program come out of DC that did not cost 2 to 3 times more than they predicted. First off they are passing the cuts to Medicare off onto the states. They are using stealth taxes (fees) and cutting services just so they can add to the bloated system
Posted by: CrooksInDC | December 23, 2009 10:05 PM
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Clown in DC,
As usual, you have no idea what you're talking about. Eight years of Republican leadership has left America choking on a $12 trillion national debt, a $787 billion taxpayer bailout, 10.2% unemployment and two wars whose purposes and astronomical costs are still unclear, with no end in sight. Middle America wants jobs, fiscal responsibility, affordable healthcare and quality public education for its children, none of which were delivered under a Republican administration and Republican Congress. Republicans had eight years to produce for America and they failed, breaking the spirit of Middle America along the way.

I love listening to Wingnutters on here like you, Terry and Lil' Johnny Doughboy expressing your hypocritical and phony 'concern' for spending now that the Repugs are in the minority. Obama could take the rest of his first term and do nothing but spend and he still wouldn't come CLOSE to deficit spending the way Republican administrations from the past 25 years have - and they spent it on crap like the Military Industrial Complex and tax cuts for Billionaires, over and over and over again. And you while they were doing it, you Wingnut stooges said: NOTHING!

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter"
- Dick Cheney

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2009/03/27/deficits/
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http://www.headybrew.net/images/content/budget_deficit_or_surplus.gif
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When the media narrative (not Faux) about the bills passage becomes about how bad the Republican Party is, President Obama's repeated attempts to reach out to Republicans looks less like a fantasy and more like a great strategy to me.

And that can only help unite Congressional Democrats with future legislation. When far right Republican nutjobs like Jim Demint are saying things like if the Health Care Reform bill passes they will never be able to stop any other good legislation, it can't be all bad.

From the very start Republicans were trying to stop Health Care Reform only because it would be too great of an achievement for the Dems, which shows that Republicans are not only small minded and lack vision, they're also hateful. And Republicans praying for the incapacitation or death of another Senator (Byrd) in order to continue their obstruction for that same reason shows them to be the morally corrupt, low-life, sleazy, vile, vulgar, pieces of crap that they are to the core.

This entire HCR debacle has been a struggle between good (Dems) and evil (Repubs), with "good" winning out in the end.

Congratulations Democrats!

2012 REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL FRONT-RUNNER SARAH PALIN BANS 'CRITICS' FROM BOOK SIGNING!!!

Does Palin have her own enemies list? You betcha:

"Approximately 1,000 people attended former Alaska governor Sarah Palin’s book-signing event in her hometown of Wasilla, AK ...Not every attendee was welcome. Dennis Zaki, an Anchorage photographer and videographer who until recently ran the Web site Alaska Report, checked in at the media table and was told by Wasilla Recreation and Cultural Services Manager James Hastings that he wasn’t welcome. "He said because this is a paid event, they can ban anybody they want," Zaki said. He didn’t fight it, he said. Zaki said he was told that he and a couple of Alaska bloggers were on the list, with photos to identify them."
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http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/23/bloggers-banned-palin/
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Apparently there were fears that someone might ask Palin what newspapers she reads. Also.

COLORADO SENATE RACE: GOP'S JANE NORTON SITS SILENTLY AS TEABAGGERS CALL PRESIDENT OBAMA A MUSLIM!!!

The false claim that President Obama is a Muslim -- a smear on both Muslims and the President -- surfaces in Colorado's U.S. Senate race:

Former Republican Colorado lieutenant governor Jane Norton, one of the five candidates competing in the Republican primary for the state's 2010 Senate race, is distinguishing herself with her full-hearted embrace of the Teabagger crowd.

"Appearing at a recent coffee-shop event with Colorado voters, Norton sat silently while a female attendee declared twice that President Barack Obama is a Muslim and while a male attendee insisted that the president -- who he deemed "an idiot" -- wanted to let babies die on the side of the road "with the garbage." "Well as you can tell there is a lot of passion around what is happening in our own country," Norton responded to the crowd, rather than correcting either individual."
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/23/gop-senate-candidate-sits_n_401739.html
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As we head towards the 2010 midterms, look for this kind of right wing garbage to become a major campaign issue. Republicans are already fired up by this kind of craziness, but the best thing about this is that as it (Teabagger crazy) continues to percolate and reveal itself, it will only energize Democrats and independents who want to keep the right wing fringe out of government. If Democrats also manage to deliver a strong progressive agenda, November's results will end up surprising a lot of political observers.

It's a good start. . .but we still need to cost cuts. Such as drug prices, lawsuits, and making sure the FDA is working on approving new drugs and machines to reduce costs; instead of being wine and dine by the drug companies.

this is the obama who is nobalist for peace

"The only difference might be that he'll use words which poll better, but the message will be the same tired old lies that led to the revolt in the first place."

--rbill, everyone knows that what's a lie is the insurance lobby funded asstroturf movement encouraging cons to behave like farm animals at a trough (the way Joe Wilson did last night) during town hall meetings. So don't even start to accuse anyone of lying. You cons are absolutely out of control liars.

Now, if you nay-sayers, The Republican-Libertarians, want to charge President Obama with the new Healthcare Reform bill, please do !! It was truly a Christmas gift to the American citizen, of particularly American proportions, in fairness and in good government !! We will no longer wring our hands in despair when hearing of mothers having to chose, for their children, between food or medical needs, or veterans being driven to the streets, to live, by the droves, because our nation was more interested in the bottomline. Well, American capitalism, can bring down your huge tent to Greed, it will no longer be allowed to bleed your clients to death, nor allow the CEOs pay an insult to their workforce's pay, a farce !! Your days of gouging and harming your client/patients are fast, coming to a close !! We have proven, once and for all, that good, affordable and efficient healthcare is a right and not a whimsical privilege ! I thank all of those elected officials who fought for we, the people, and succeeded. You just made America a little greater, a little kinder and a whole lot more democratic ! Now, let's kick that Bush&Cheney economic nightmare out on its ear and return those jobs, that were lost by that inept tandem, Bush&Cheney !!! I want to thank President Obama and the Democratic members of Congress, the Independents and those fair-minded Republicans, who worked hard for healthcare reform. You just made our good nation, better !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.
MERRY CHRISTMAS,TO THE MEN AND WOMEN OF OUR ARMED FORCES.

DumDumDonnie. This bill is a fiasco. It starts charging us now, yet doesn't take effect for four years. No mother has to choose between food and health care. No vet is on the street because of health care. Geesh, how stooopid can you liberal loons get? Wait, don't answer that, it was rhetorical.

Harry Reid Turns Insurance Into a Public Utility

The health bill creates a massive cash crunch and then bankruptcies for many insurers.
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704304504574610040924143158.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

Posted by: Terry | December 23, 2009 10:26 PM

Ya right whatever you want to believe! And who was it that doubled our debt since 2001??? Youre the one re writting history buddy.

Ornery,

"An economic depression is a severe downturn that lasts several years".

This isn't even close to depression, and never was going to be. The economy had negative growth for about 19 months (not even consecutive months since there was positive growth in 2Q08). Unemployment is nowhere near (at least as of now) where it was in the 30's. This is more like the recession of 1982-83, but w/o the inflation and high interest rates.

HHH,

The debt when President Bush left office was $10.6 Trillion now it is $12.2 Trillion. President Bush added $4.9 Trillion in debt in 8 years in office, BO is on his way to doing that in 4 years.

A $787 Billion Stimulus was passed by BO and his merry band of socialists. The $700 Billion TARP was passed by BUsh and voted on in the Senate by BO. For the record, the TARP (not that I was a fan) was the reason we have come from the recession, not the Stimulus.

"Middle America wants jobs, fiscal responsibility, affordable healthcare and quality public education for its children, none of which were delivered under a Republican administration and Republican Congress." How has BO done on this? Jobs - lost about 3 million. Affordable health care, we will have a deficit busting bill that will cripple economic growth. Fiscal Responsibility - Near annual trillion dollar deficits for teh next ten years - that is according to BO. Quality public education - the public wants quakity education. They don't care where they get it. They won't get it from the gov't. Public education is not a federal issue.

Republicans dod not have eight years. They had the presidency for eight years, control of the House for 6 years, and control of the Senate for 4.5 years. Are you capable of getting any facts straight?

"Obama could take the rest of his first term and do nothing but spend and he still wouldn't come CLOSE to deficit spending the way Republican administrations from the past 25 years have" Another factually incorrect statement. BO is on course to have higher deficits in his projected 8 years in office, than Reagan, Bush41 and Bush43 had in there 20 years.

Deficits don't matter, when they are a small portion of GDP and they do not go into perpetuity like BO's do.

Deficits don't matter, when they are a small portion of GDP and they do not go into perpetuity like BO's do.

Posted by: Terry | December 24, 2009 10:15 AM

Ya right! As if you losers won the presidential election you wouldnt be adding to the national debt or deficit like the previous administration did. the largest government and deficit in history prior to Obama! When the democrats do it you say Hey stop. When the republicans do it you say, it doesnt matter! Whatever!
Obama camoaigned on healthcare reform and he got it started!

Republicans dod not have eight years. They had the presidency for eight years, control of the House for 6 years, and control of the Senate for 4.5 years. Are you capable of getting any facts straight?

I'm sorry isnt it always you who says the republicans had control during the Clinton years?? So lets add up how many years you losers had control again ok!
Here let me do it for you memory loss neocon:

The House of Representatives – 12 years (1995-2007)
The Senate – 6 years (1995-2001) and then another 4 year (2003-2007)

Again you're wrong as usual!! So tell me, what did your goons do in all those years besides pocket gazillions at the poor and middle classes expense??

Scottie,

If Conservatives had won in 2008 with a filabuster proof Senate (something President Bush never had), the deficit projections would not be near $1 Trillion per year. Unemployment would not have been as high as it is today since tax cuts would have spurred private consumption and investment (two major components of GDP).

"They had the presidency for eight years, control of the House for 6 years, and control of the Senate for 4.5 years." House 2001-06 - six years of Bush presidency. Senate - first half of 2001 and then 2003-2006 - 4 1/2 years of the Bush presidency. Having trouble counting? This shouldn;t have been hard sionce you have ten fingers.

Thank God you are not the reproducing kind.

berlet 98:
snip
There are lies and there are lies. There are white lies, BIG lies, petty falsehoods, serious misrepresentations, gross prevarications, cowardly equivocations, major whoppers, silly taradiddles, and fibs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
..weapons of mass destruction lies..."mission accomplished" lies..."where's BinLadin" lies..." Obama's a Muslim" lies.." Obama was born in Kenya" lies...blah-biddy-blah-blah..." we need to invade Iraq to keep down oil prices" lies..." the banks needed bailing out because the banks were forced to make home loans to unqualified poor minorities." lies..Yeah, we know all about lies allright ;)

john, who thinks he's right"
(snip)

Good grief, Ornery, the nation was not in depression. One year ago, economists said ...
(end snip)
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The economists said ? Tell me you are not really waiting on the wings of what the economists might pronounce?
All you need to do ,John, is take a good look at the real number of unemployed Americans: 18+ % which is awfully close to what unemployment was during the great depression. The labor dept. doesn't include into their figures the self-lemployed/independent contractors who lost their jobs and thats because they do not qualify for unemployment benefits. Look at the numbers of Americans on food stamps: 1 in 7 or foreclosures.
Unemployment, hunger and homelessness are a true reflection of the state of the American econony but to the r-cons, they're useless liberal freeloaders who deserve to be where they are in life.

"They had the presidency for eight years, control of the House for 6 years, and control of the Senate for 4.5 years." House 2001-06 - six years of Bush presidency. Senate - first half of 2001 and then 2003-2006 - 4 1/2 years of the Bush presidency. Having trouble counting? This shouldn;t have been hard sionce you have ten fingers.

Thank God you are not the reproducing kind.

Posted by: Terry | December 24, 2009 1:01 PM

And they did what for Health Care??? NOTHING!!!!
Tax cuts dont work as the highest 1% who gets the most out of those tax cuts DO NOT GO SHOPPING! All they did with that mney is invest and make more money. Didnt help the poor or the middle class!
The two wars and huge tax cuts that your loser party pushed on us caused the national debt to double and created the highest deficit in history prior to Obama who has to add to the deficit in order to celan up your mess!!

Oh and by the way, its way too bad that you ARE the breeding kind as your kind just breeds disaster and selfishness!

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HHH,The debt when President Bush left office was $10.6 Trillion now it is $12.2 Trillion. President Bush added $4.9 Trillion in debt in 8 years in office, BO is on his way to doing that in 4 years.
Posted by: Terry | December 24, 2009 1:01 PM
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Obama added 4.9 Trillion in debt? Are you on drugs or something?

3/4 of that is because Obama took the cost of the Iraq war that Bush was running 'off the books' and made it public, like it should have been all along.

You delusional right wing deadenders crack me up. Take your meds Terry.

DumDumDonnie. This bill is a fiasco. It starts charging us now, yet doesn't take effect for four years. No mother has to choose between food and health care. No vet is on the street because of health care. Geesh, how stooopid can you liberal loons get? Wait, don't answer that,

Posted by: Bobby Mobbie | December 24, 2009 9:32 AM
_____________________________________

ATTENTION DON FITZGERALD!

"Bobby Mobbie" is a paid right wing troll and deserves to be treated with derision and scorn early and often.

Keep up the good work!

Scottie Girl,

The top 1% pay 40% of the income taxes in this country. The Bush tax cuts lowered the highest tax rate from 39.6% to 35% or about a 10% drop. The same Bush tax cuts cut part of the 15% tax bracket down to 10% - a 33% drop.

It's not going shopping that will create jobs, it is investment. More money in the job creators hands will create investment - worked when JFK did it, when Reagan did it and when Bush43 did it. Also, generates more tax revenues.

Does BO need to add $9 Trillion to the deficit (his 10 year projection) to clean up the mess or is it to create a bunch of dependents on large gov't programs?

Yes - my offsping are conservatives.

HHH,

BO projections show him adding $5 Trillion to the debt in his first four years. That is incorrect that $3.75 Trillion is the cost of the wars over the next four years. Also incorrect is that the cost of the war was not included in the Bush deficits. The cost of the wars are not included in the Bush budgets. Know the language before you try to make your dull point.

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BO projections show him adding $5 Trillion to the debt in his first four years. That is incorrect that $3.75 Trillion is the cost of the wars over the next four years. Also incorrect is that the cost of the war was not included in the Bush deficits
Posted by: Terry | December 24, 2009 10:23 PM
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Sociopath,
Not surprisingly, you're lying again.

First off, what the Murdoch Street Journal and the Heritage Foundation etc "predict" that the deficit will be is crap, it's nothing more than right wing pie in the sky propaganda. The FACT of the matter is the deficit will be what it is WHEN IT HAPPENS, not before then. These right wing noise machine sites that you're always producing are also from the same "geniuses" who told us Iraq had WMD's.

You're lying about Bush's part in the deficit amount that's being attributed to Obama. Bush never included the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. This explodes the amount in the deficit figures you claim. Also not included by Bush is the ongoing care our brave wounded veterans will need far into the future. Add to this, the interest needed to cover the money wasted in these unwinnable wars, and the figure goes ballistic. With the Obama team now in place, they have the real facts and figures to go by, not the fudged figures used by the former Bushco Republican criminal regime.
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http://forum.boiseweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=55878
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You're a habitual liar Terry, take your meds.

If I wasn't stuck in an airport right now I wouldn't even bother to respond to your drivel, because it's the same crap with you, over and over again.

Trickled On,

Read it an weep - from the BO administration

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE57K4XE20090821

There is still costs to veterans from FDR's and Truman's WW2, that happens all the time. Future administrations are going to have to pay costs of BO's little health care costs into perpetuity.

Stuck in an airport? Break is over for you, back to mopping the floors in the terminal.

NObama got what he wanted for Christmas, and the American public got hosed!.

terry of teabagistan:
(snipped)

It's not going shopping that will create jobs, it is investment. (end snip)

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Investment in what? Empty warehouses or commecial properties ? Your logic is illogical, except to yourself.

The smart investors know this country is broke;,so why throw good money after bad. America is in a depression and has been for a few years now. With the middle class destroyed via COL and job losses, who on earth do you think is doing the spending?

Like Mrs. Gump said:
" Forrest, you only need so much to live, the rest is for showing off.."
The middle class spends and the wealthy invest; after all, there is only so much useless junk one can fill their houses with. The nearly extinct middle class and working poor are buying essentials and thats it.

You will never admit that you might actually be wrong because it will shake the foundation of what you were taught to believe right to the core and at your age, this could be devastating to your psyche but fear not. A good healthy dose of truth never hurt anyone and it won't hurt you,either.

Always Wrong,

America is not in a depression and has not been. A depression, by economic definition, is a severe downturn that lasts several years. Unless BO keeps his policies going, we aren't and won't be in a depression.

The middle class was destroyed by "Cost of Living"? Inflation has beeen dormanent for a generation.

Investment in businesses will create jobs. We have seen the middle class pulling back on their spending and saving more with their money. So the growth in the private sector economy is not going to come thru Consumption, it must come thru Investment.

As for the truth, my arguments are based in proven economic theory, not some gut feel

Did you ever study the components of GDP?

terry of teabagerstan:
(some snipping done)

Always Wrong,

America is not in a depression and has not been. A depression, by economic definition, is a severe downturn that lasts several years.
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wow: ...ok..?..and to you this is not a depression because it's not affected you...With nearly 18+% unemployment, it's a depression, wether you agree or not.

t of t:
The middle class was destroyed by "Cost of Living"? Inflation has beeen dormanent for a generation.

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wow: families are spending way beyond the traditional rule of thumb just to put a roof over their heads and living from wrist to mouth. The lack of healthcare insurance-access has been a big contributing factor; hopefully this will be changing for the better. The cost of housing-rent-utilities are draining what was once disposable income for families.
With little left, the economy is not being stimulated and the rest you can figure out on your own.
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t of t goes on:
Investment in businesses will create jobs. We have seen the middle class pulling back on their spending and saving more with their money. So the growth in the private sector economy is not going to come thru Consumption, it must come thru Investment.

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wow:
It's the consumer who drives the economy, not the other way around.
Additionally, you need to make a distinction between investors and extractors...
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t of t:
As for the truth, my arguments are based in proven economic theory, not some gut feel

Did you ever study the components of GDP?

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Terry, your proven theories are just that: theories, and guess what ? The do not work because your *theory* is based upon a foundation of
" trickle down economics "
which put us where we are in America by destroying the middle class and without a viable middle class there is no real democracy and this is very bad for everyone except the very wealthy and their artifical persons.

I hear you yahoos from both sides of the political spectrum. Talking about a little $12.5 trillion deficit. Let's be real neither side has counted Social Security or the true cost of Medicaid and Medicare if they did the debt would be near $100 trillion right now. So if you want to get mad at anybody you have to get mad at all of them for the fraud they have been pulling on this country for years. How do you thank President Clinton had a surplus when he left office is called math that DC way. There was never a surplus and there has been not been one for decades. But for all the folks out there that want to believe the bull that is coming out of DC go right at I just hope to God you do not fault because you are uneducated about the facts. They have taken whole entitlement programs and hide the fact that all the money collected from payrolls has been spent for other stuff. People need to educate themselves or this country is doomed. Once they get the health care bill up and running they will hide the true cost with that program too! Just like Cap & Trade which is a job killer and they know it. United Kingdom has a Cap & Trade system that is riddled with fraud and corruption and has not lowered their greenhouse gases. The United Kingdom just like going in America pushed all the new green jobs that would be created but in reality for every new green job in the UK they have lost five traditional jobs. I cannot say it enough get educated.

JohnEE Posterboy:

Lest we forget Liberal Dems for the War....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5p-qIq32m8

I know, Liberal JohEE Postitnotes, they were LIED to, by the evil Rove/Cheney/Bush/Hurricane Machine. Say, maybe we should try admitted terrorists bombers in open courts and reveal all our intelligence gathering methodologies! That's a swell idea to improve the quality of intel, isn't it? It should also make us all much safer and our enemies will like us, just like they enamored with BHO. Silly Liberal JohnEE Postmaster.

Always wrong,

It is not a depression because it does not fit the economic definition of a depression. End of story.

Middle Class families of this generation have spent themselves into debt by buying more house they could afford and by using their houses' equity as a piggy bank. Also, middle class families could afford health care if they didn't buy more house than they could afford, but cable TV, cell phones, eat out as much, but lottery tickets. This health care bill does not subsidize health insurance in as much as it subsidizes these unimportant items in people's lives.

Did you look at the components of GDP? Guess which component has taken the biggest dip - Investment.

If theories (and there not mine) are proven to work, then I think they are little more than theories. Supply-side economics worked in the 60's, the 80's and the 2000's. Tax cuts gace use three of the five longest economic growth cycles in history.

What I have presented are provable facts, not just blather like your posts. If you want to dispute a specific fact, let me know.

H_H_H once more I see truth is beyond you. When Bush left office the debt was 10.6 trillion after just 11 months with Obama it stands now at 12.2 trillion. And now he is asking Congress to raise the debt limit by over 2 trillion. In all the debt limit hikes in the past have been done by 1 trillion at a time. Obama is asking for this two trillion dollar raise now so that he doesn't have to ask for another one right before the November elections. Answer me this why in a new health care bill due to taxes and fees start to be collected right after the bill becomes law but the services do not start until 2013. I will tell you what I think the answer is they cannot raise the debt limit fast enough to cover the cost of this bill. This bill is not a reform bill! They could have done this with smaller and easier to implement bills; a bill saying you cannot be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Are a another bill that allows insurance companies to sell their policies across state lines. Or this bill the cost of any service are available to the customer in the doctors office or hospital of what it cost and what the insurance company charges.

The Democrats with this bill are passing a large part of the cost on to the states. So far nine state attorney general's have filed suit over these cost that they say their states cannot afford. Five Congress members have said they would retire this year all Democrats. A sixth is leaving the Democratic Party over its takeover by the far left wing liberals. People should read about the Kansas Nebraska act of 1854 and how it led to the fall of one political party and the rise of another. And now that act led in part to the Civil War. Get educated people and take back the government from the two political parties that are both destroying this country.

terry the 'bagger:
(snip)

It is not a depression because it does not fit the economic definition of a depression. End of story. (end snip)
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well, I guess that just settles that, right Terry ? Our economy would be fine if it weren't for those "downtrodden" ruining things for everyone else, with their out of control spending, shaking down banks for mortgages that they do not qualify for and other assorted
anti-social behavior like being hungry, jobless and homeless. How dare they.(end)

t ot goes on:
Middle Class families of this generation have spent themselves into debt by buying more house they could afford and by using their houses' equity as a piggy bank. Also, middle class families could afford health care if they didn't buy more house than they could afford,
(end)

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In retrospect, those who were able to use their houses as piggybanks were the smart ones or are you now going to accuse them of taking down the economy.
You have all sorts of whipping persons in your arsenal. Noticebly absent are the wall street crooks and the big banks. They're the ones who made out like bandits but to you they get a free pass, along with trillion dollar bailouts.

Still Writing Wrongs,

There is an economic difference between a depression and a recession. Facts are stubborn things.

It's not the downtroddens fault - economies have downturns and upswings. People suffer during downturns and prosper during upswings. The fault of this current recession (remember some say we are out of the recession) was the hosuing bubble caused by over agressive lending which was caused by federal gov't interference.

"those who were able to use their houses as piggybanks were the smart ones". So you consider smart to take out a long-term home equity loan to finance a short-term asset such as the purchase of a car or to go on vacation? This was part of the problem of individuals wanting things they could not afford.

I was not in favor of the wall street or big bank bailouts. I understood how it would work, but did not like the message of "too big to fail". It is just another extension of the gov't nanny state. One of the major things that makes capitalism work is the having the ability to succeed, but also having the ability to fail. The gov't is removing the risk of failure, which isn't good.