White House: Health-costs contained

Anyone that thinks Obamacare will not cost an arm & a leg are not of this world.

As the official acturaries of the Medicare put it, the Redi Bill will increase the cost of health insurance

http://burr.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressOffice.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=7f3b5676-986d-40d6-9c1c-67769098ce5f

Is there a gov't run social program that has met its customers needs AND come in under its original budget?

Medicare tax rate has quadrupled over its life AND it has removed the salary cap for its taxable earnings.

What makes you think the gov't will get it right this time?

When anyone from the government says "trust me", I run for the exit.

I cannot see how lowering the age for eligibility to Medicare to 55 will save the trust fund any money. The actuaries have informed us that the Medicare trust fund will be paying out more than it takes in by 2017 and it appears that the health care bill will accelerate this outflow.

The White House should level with the American people rather than look for a political victory!

SURPRISE!!! IT''S ALL A MIRAGE.
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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/12/14/get_real_about_health_costs_99526.html

"Trust us, we're here to help. We're from the government."

How is expanding healthcare to some 30 million people not supposed to drive up costs and prices?

Simple economics will tell you that rationing of services based on prices is the only way to balance supply (of healthcare/doctors) and demand (patients).

No worries though, the government can solve it by putting its giant thumb on the scale.

Since the DNC Swamp often runs the results of the Pew Poll, perhaps these results from the Dec. 9th Pew Poll explain why the Left believes (or pretends to believe) the ObamaCare cost estimates that the White House is putting out.

By a 2-1 margin, Liberals and Democrats are more likely than Republicans to believe in ghosts, astrology, yoga, the "evil eye", "spiritual energy in physical objects", to say they've been in touch with the dead, or to have consulted a fortuneteller or psychic.

For the full poll results, see

http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=490

Once again, the only issue that matters to the wingnuts is the number of grains in their bowl of rice. Me me me.

We dare not consider whether we, as "the greatest country in history" find it at all tolerable that any of our people should suffer, die prematurely, etc. because they cannot afford health care. No. We decide everything based on me me me. The rest of you can rot, reason the wingnuts, so long I can love and caress my bowl of rice.

This country is going down the tubes because we seem to be about the most selfish group of people in history. It's about time we revisited our priorities as a country. We are our brothers' keepers and we're doing a really lousy job of it. Let's imagine what we can do for each other, or let's just disband the country and start over.

Good Job Joe,

Lieberman won't have any part of the Medicare at 55 nonsense

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9CIQA100&show_article=1

"Once again, the only issue that matters to the wingnuts is the number of grains in their bowl of rice. Me me me. .."

Posted by: a blinkin | December 14, 2009 12:25 PM

What a petulant rant-

Most people don't want Obamacare- 60% - do you really think that this could be only Repupblicans?

Most people want a free market economy and less government intervention in the economy - 76%- is that all "wing nuts"?

Nobody needs your immature, misguided, moralizing - in fact, you should take your whine to your Dem leadership and ask them how they were able to take a filibuster proof majority in congress with a Dem president and the best they can come up with in the name of Health Care reform was a massive expansion of Medicare which is already insolvent and likely heading for bankruptcy in its current form...

Of course in Reids dim view of the world - any opposition to the stupid, big government ( how creative)health care proposals he and Pelosi were able to come up with in the secret closed door Senate seances he was holding make you a racist- so get ready to get your feeling hurt some more if you take your concerns to him.

The best solution to poverty is wealth- the government needs to get out of the way and let people pursue wealth again-

Right now it looks like Reid is about 6 votes short. That is in the form the bill is in right now. If he removes the age 55 for Medicare it loss more votes.

In the words of Winston Churchill, it is time to move health care from "... the shifting sands of charity to the firm bedrock of law." ...........

http://thefiresidepost.com/2009/12/10/the-shifting-sands-of-charity-the-firm-bedrock-of-law/

@Heartburn:

"The best solution to poverty is wealth"

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Real heavy, Heartburn. Deep. Bet you had to spell that out in crayon several times before hunting and pecking it into the computer machine. With "thought" like that it's no wonder you clowns managed to destroy this country in 8 years.

@Heartburn:

"The best solution to poverty is wealth"

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Real heavy, Heartburn. Deep. Bet you had to spell that out in crayon several times before hunting and pecking it into the computer machine. With "thought" like that it's no wonder you clowns managed to destroy this country in 8 years.

Posted by: a blinkin | December 14, 2009 2:45 PM

You have a better solution for poverty than wealth than please share- if it helps you with your struggles with the big bad adult world- taking one persons wealth and handing it to another is not generating anything other than dependency.

Or are illogical, emotional rants that only argument you have ?

The finance overhaul bill passed with not one GOP vote--so why not pass HC "reform" with no GOP or Independent votes? Go for 51 votes for true reform. We don't want a b@stardized bill that is very expensive to individual taxed citizens and families, puts women down, continues to raise men and the child-molesting Catholic Church up, will limit catistophic care payments per year, and will make many more health insurance lobbyists and CEOs millionaires from us being forced by "law" to buy their product.
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It seems the majority party doesn't trust what they are themselves doing, and want some faint "bipartisan" vote in order to share the blame later for putting guns to our heads in order to make for-profit insurance companies fatter...while those companies promise to increase our premiums as they get 30+ million new members. Does the Senate and House think the US gov't can't run an efficient non-profit health care program? The insurance companies promising to raise our premiums is also a promise by them to meddle with our taxes since we will then be taxed more on the increased value of our policies. No way. Who the hell is a private insurance company to force me to pay more taxes to the US government? That's an up-in-arms proposition.
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Public option with 51 votes is the only way if Nancy, Harry and Barry want this to happen. Make it a pure, clean bill with no BS or disguised earmarks that raise the cost and have nothing to do with keeping American citizens healthy and out of pain.

Wealth is not a "solution" for poverty any more than water is a "solution" for drought.

The "free market" will not build a highway across Montana, because there's not enough demand. The "free market" will not provide fire protection in backwater Mississippi, or police on the west side of Chicago, because in each instance the risks of performance (supply) are too great and thus the price cannot be reduced enough. In all these instances the government steps in, not because it makes economic sense, but because it accomplishes something else desirable..

The "free market" has yet to provide health coverage that everyone can afford, and it never will. If you set the premiums high enough to justify the risks, you'll exclude people who cannot afford the premiums. Which puts us back where I started: can we really be a "great" country when, with all of our collective resources, we let people die prematurely, and suffer unecessarily, because they have no money. That's your America, Heatburn, and to me it could stand some improvement.

Health care coverage is not a right.

If the recent debate on health care has taught us anything...it's that the consumer is not in the driver's seat on this.
Drug Companies, Insurance companies, Hospitals, and doctors...the ones that set the pricing for medical care...all have their high paid lobbyist prowling the halls of congress, dishing promises of golf outings, campaign contributions, future employment and other goodies to the hungry members of congress.
As long as money is being waved in front of our elected representatives...don't expect them to pay much attention to voters. After all even elections are won by slick ads that cost money...so follow the money , right?

My wife and I have found a solution that seems to work for us...
Health care beyond America's borders.
With medical costs a fraction of what the health care industry charges us in the US, we've found excellent affordable health care in Thailand, of all places..even without insurance.
To woo the cash strapped and weary American uninsured and underinsured, The Thais (and Indians, Malaysian, and Singaporeans) have built excellent private hospital system that provide top notch care for a fraction of the costs in the US.
These hospitals are accredited and follow the same standards as in the US. In fact they outperform US hospitals in service and care.
Yet you can expect to pay 1/10th to 1/20th what it cost for the same procedure in the US.
Heart Bypass...US $150,000.
Hear Bypass..Thailand $15,000
My minor throat surgery for disphagia...US $2500
Thailand $100.
(That was 1 year ago today and I am back in the US... very much alive.)
In fact in Thailand most people have no use for health insurance. Prices are so affordable that Thais would rather save the insurance premiums and bank it.
While we in the US get hit twice....once by the insurance company...and the second time by the medical profession. So we pay twice for health care.
And don't think that you are safe with insurance in America. Check your insurance policy for hidden costs like deductibles, copays and insurance caps and you will be shocked to find that health care coverage is VERY LIMITED

The US health care system is a train wreck hurtling down the mountainside with NO hope that anything...even the health care proposals in Congress can fix.

As long as the people who stand to gain the most profit from health care are calling the shots...people who rely on the US health care system are SCREWED.

Wealth is not a "solution" for poverty any more than water is a "solution" for drought.

The "free market" will not build a highway across Montana, because there's not enough demand. The "free market" will not provide fire protection in backwater Mississippi, or police on the west side of Chicago, because in each instance the risks of performance (supply) are too great and thus the price cannot be reduced enough. In all these instances the government steps in, not because it makes economic sense, but because it accomplishes something else desirable..

The "free market" has yet to provide health coverage that everyone can afford, and it never will. If you set the premiums high enough to justify the risks, you'll exclude people who cannot afford the premiums. Which puts us back where I started: can we really be a "great" country when, with all of our collective resources, we let people die prematurely, and suffer unecessarily, because they have no money. That's your America, Heatburn, and to me it could stand some improvement.

Posted by: a blinkin | December 14, 2009 4:27 PM

Your comparing Public works projects with individual insurance...these are completely unrelated. The free market has provided 100s of millions of americans the most dynamic, affluent lifestyle in histrory- because it is based on valuing the individual's contribution.
You claim that the free market has created the high cost of health care insurance, but the reality is that the health care insurance undustry is anything but a free market. A free market would provide;
-- the same tax breaks to individuals that employers receive for health care premiums.
--a market for insurance that is not limited to the state you live in only.
--Unregulated policies that allow you to purchase the coverage you want and NOT be required to purchase coverage that you don't need.
--Realistic caps on damages awarded for medical malpractice-

The solution is to remove the government created -price increasing and service limiting- regulations on health care insurance.

Heartburn:

I suppose you've identified the critical philosophical divide we've got.

Your view seems to be that government's purpose is to enable people to have "the most dynamic, affluent lifestyle in history."

My view is that a more important purpose for the government is to ensure that no one dies prematurely, etc., simply because they cannot afford medical care.

I favor life and humanity; you favor Humvees.

Strikes me that our exchange proves my first "rant" to be entirely correct. You folks on the right care only about yourselves and your precious grains of rice. While you (plural) pretend to sanctify life, these are just empty words. You'd sooner see someone die from lack of medical care than part with a grain of your rice in order to prevent such deaths. Sad.

Heartburn:

I suppose you've identified the critical philosophical divide we've got.

Your view seems to be that government's purpose is to enable people to have "the most dynamic, affluent lifestyle in history."

My view is that a more important purpose for the government is to ensure that no one dies prematurely, etc., simply because they cannot afford medical care.

I favor life and humanity; you favor Humvees.

Strikes me that our exchange proves my first "rant" to be entirely correct. You folks on the right care only about yourselves and your precious grains of rice. While you (plural) pretend to sanctify life, these are just empty words. You'd sooner see someone die from lack of medical care than part with a grain of your rice in order to prevent such deaths. Sad.

Posted by: a blinkin | December 15, 2009 3:02 PM

So you clearly are a believer in health care is a right when you assign the role of government to the task of "...ensure(ing) that no one dies prematurely, etc., simply because they cannot afford medical care. " I can respect the intent- but the reality is that this is a complete departure from the intent of the founders when they drafted the constitution and defined the role of the US govt... the individual mandate alone should be enough to disqualify Obamacare from being signed into law.

Your argument is pure liberal logic- you rely on emotional -make yourself feel good, standing up for the poor and unfortunate rhetoric in order to avoid answering real world arguments like;

Why do you believe that the best way to provide insurance to the 10-13M or so who really need help getting insurance is to overhaul 1/6 of our economy?

And - do you really believe that the bills being dreamed up in Harry Reids secret health care laboratory are the right thing to do- given that not even Dem leader like Durbin or Boehner have any clue what is in the bill?

Whether you are a Republican, a Democrat, or an Independent, Everyone's Primary Goal in this Healthcare Reform Process, must to Used HIT, to Contained our SkyRocketing Healthcare Spending. We must Used some of the Stimulus funds, to Build Smart/Intelligent Infrastructure Services for: Smart Grids, Transportation Systems, Broadband, and Healthcare IT. This Investment will Enabled New Jobs Creation and Economic Recovery.

Healthcare IT, now it is the time for us to Implement HIT, with Harmonized Inter-State Laws/Policies for the Protection of Individual's electronnic Health Records/Electronic Medical Records/Personal Health Records.

Proper Deployment of Health Information Technology (HIT) Solutions and Training will Increased Productivity (i, e, medical data mining/warehousing, risks trreatment, service deliveery), Efficiency (i, e, medical errors, redundant and inappropriate care), and have a Costs Savings of around 20-30% of our Annual National Healthcare Expenditurres (2008, $2.5 Trillions).

The Engine of Economic Growth in this 21st Century is "Broadband." We can start by, Deploying a pure Packet-based, All Optical/IP, Multi-Service National Transport Network Infrastructure, using Optical Ethernet throughout this National "Network of Networks." This will Connect All Optical Islands, Nationwide.

The Investment in this "Network of Networks", in addition to New Jobs Creation and Economic Recovery, can allso Serve as a Business Driver for: e-Commerce, e-Education, e-Healthcare, Energy Systems, Transportation Systems, Social Networking, Etnertainment, etc.

This type of Investment is like the Investments that were made in the past, in Electrification of the Rural Areas, and the National Transportation Inter-State Highways, which Increased Productivity and oour GDP.

See: www.gkquoquoi.blogspot.com for Nationwide Health Information Network (NHIN) Summary Deployment Plan.

Gadema Korboi Quoquoi
President & CEO
COMPULINE IINTERNATIONAL, INC.