Healthcare, elections and 'nuclear option'

The Repubs sounded like whiny children and Pres Obama and the Dems sound patient and informed. The Repubs complain about "lecturing"..if one of them ever bothered to read the damn thing they just might know what they're talking about. Failing that, they have no option but to sound stupid and petulant.

This is yet another public exposure of the GOP - in a POLICY debate - doing nothing but what they do all the time - Propangandized Talking Points and Frank Luntz phrases. They haven't presented a single idea from what I've seen - and the Dems listening to them and gently countering them when they get the facts wrong is making them come out on top, as expected.

Republicans are spending every ounce of their breath saying some combination of the following bs:

1) Start over

2) Your plan isn't popular

3) We've got a plan too

Here's the thing about #2 and #3: to the extent that they're true, their plan is less popular than the Democratic plan. Much less popular. People may not like the bills passed by the House and Senate (Congress is never popular), but even now, they still trust President Obama over Republicans on health care -- and by a wide margin.
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http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/02/11/disaffected-public-still-sides-with-obama-more-than-the-republic/

Nothing Republicans said yesterday changed that. Odds are, they just made things worse for themselves.

The entire Republican party is comprised of ideological tools who want to sacrifice everything in the name of their Frank Luntz created "talking points" (and they're not even creative ones at that).

The Rethugs just dealt themselves out of this, so screw'em. Time to shove everything we can down their lying right wing throats with the 50 votes we have (+ Biden=51) using reconciliation. Like a not-for-profit option run by the government just like Medicare, so nobody is forced into becoming the customer of a corporate predator.

The GOP Has A Convenient Memory Loss In Regards To Reconciliation Usage

Despite Their Current Rhetoric, GOP Summit/Health Care Reform Attendees Have Supported Reconciliation Many Times In The Past Few Years

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http://mediamattersaction.org/factcheck/201002250003
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Just a few years ago Obama said about the nuclear option that "it's an abomination", Hillary said "it was unconstitutional", and Biden said "it's not the way to run a government". But why now is it okay in those three peoples liberal polluted minds. And before you loony liberals go off saying the Republicans used it I say show the proof because it did not get used. And when the Republicans did threaten to use it they had the backing of the voters (78%). And there is talk floating around DC in the liberal ranks about changing the rules in ending filibusters with just 51 votes and not the 60 needed now. Only 30% of the voters agree with the rule change. So let the loony liberal fanatics keep going against the majority of the voting population and they will pay dearly for their arrogance come the next few election cycles. What do you think happened in 2008?

The Republicans are royally shafted at this point, they've contributed to the rope fund with their pathetic performance yesterday. All they have left now is hysterics.

GOPer's lie as a matter of routine....

For example, they get themselves booked on every Sunday talk show every single week and say they are fighting against HCR because they are representing the people. They claim HCR is wildly unpopular and they are only following the people's will.

It's a lie. Go to www.pollingreport.com and check out the healthcare section. Each component of HCR is wildly POPULAR. Both the recent Newsweek and Kaiser polls show that overwhelming majorities want an exchange to provide competition, and majorities also favor a public option.

Oh, but HCR legislation has been rejected by the people. So say the GOPers liars....
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http://www.pollingreport.com/health.htm#C
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GOPer's are scum, evil, and subhuman

I see the leftists are using their talking points from the DNC. Have you got down your matra for the call-in talk radio shows? I see the DNC put those together for you guys yesterday.

Here are your talking points from the DNC's Organizing for America:

DISCUSSION POINTS

These points are only to provide extra information and suggestions. Your personal story will make the most compelling message.

* For most Americans, their health care plan covers too little and costs too much. Far too many people delay or even skip the care they need because they simply can’t afford it.
* The plan the President laid out includes the largest health care tax cut for middle class families in history and makes coverage more affordable for tens of millions of families and small business owners and expands coverage to over 31 million Americans who are currently uninsured.
* This plan will give millions of Americans new choices in health insurance by making coverage more affordable, ending the denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions, putting power in the hands of consumers instead of insurance companies and providing one of the largest tax cuts in history while also reducing our national deficit.
* Reform couldn’t be more urgent – just this month consumers in California were told their premiums could go up as much as 39 percent.
* Too many in Washington are now saying that we should delay or give up on reform entirely, but Americans understand the stakes for our economy and our lives, and we want action."

UP OR DOWN VOTE!

mediamatters.org is a George Soros funded propaganda machine to disseminate false and misleading information.

MORE GOPee LIES!

"The GOP is attempting to equate reconciliation with the nuclear option that Republican Majority Leader Bill Frist attempted. It must be noted, it is the Republicans that have been constantly ramming things through with reconciliation and have been the only ones to attempt a nuclear option. For their own purposes, Republican Senators and Republican Congress people have supported reconciliation vociferously in the past."

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http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/p/o/politicaltruths/2010/02/rachel-maddow-expose-gop-lie-o.php?ref=recdc
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Pelosi: Comeon, let's do this for Kennedy!

This just in...

Strange whirling sounds can be heard coming from the grave sites of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison.

I only have one question. Is the only thing democrat posters can do is call those that oppose their viewpoint, names? Were you people abused as children? Were you always the last one picked or left off the team? Maybe its because you still are children.

It's George Wallace's GOP Now. And like Wallace and his far right wing supporters 40 years ago, today's conservative populists are long on anger and short on coherence
>>>>>
http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/socialstudies.php
>>>>>

The gov't is incapable of running any social program. For those of you screaming for the public option, why not try public hosuing first? How's public education do as compared to privately run education?

Here is an example of gov't run health care. Let's get their opinion on how well it has worked for them. As these folks say "don’t get sick after June".

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/health/2009/june/The-Dark-Side-of-Health-Care-on-Native-American-Reservations.html

Just what this economy needs is more gov't spending and a larger deficit. Hillary Clinton now says that the defcicit and debt are national security issues.

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mediamatters.org is a George Soros funded propaganda machine to disseminate false and misleading information.

Posted by: slobber | February 26, 2010 3:15 PM
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Is that the best you've got, Bobby Mobbie?

Just a bunch of garbage about how you don't like the source and yet NOTHING to refute it?

HAHAHA!!!

'Hope and Change", is more like "Change and Despair". Pushing the health bill through will bring down the economy further. Reclaim America in November!!

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Just a few years ago Obama said about the nuclear option that "it's an abomination", Hillary said "it was unconstitutional", and Biden said "it's not the way to run a government". But why now is it okay in those three peoples liberal polluted minds.
Posted by: Crooks_In_DC | February 26, 2010 2:48 PM
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Nice try Clown in DC,

Reconiliation isn't the Nuclear Option, you moron.

The Nuclear Option is a procedure used to break a filibuster....

"The Republicans nuclear talking point is even sillier, since you only need to go back to the dark days of 2005 to see this term used to mean something else. The Bush-era GOP Senate majority, which was accustomed to using reconciliation for priority measures, was annoyed that democrats were filibustering circuit court nominees. Consequently, right-wing organizations came up with the idea of having Dick Cheney rule such filibusters unconstitutional, and then having 50 Republican Senators support his ruling. The devisers of this plan called it “the nuclear option.” Then Democratic opponents of this plan also took to calling it “the nuclear option” at which point proponents of the nuclear option decided they wanted to change the name and started calling it “the constitutional option.” At the time, I said Democrats should try to strike a bargain where both parties would agree to abolish all filibusters and return the Senate to majority rule. Instead, basically the reverse deal was struck—Democrats let the judges in question be confirmed, but the filibuster lived to fight another day."

"At this point in time, however, absolutely nobody suggested that there was anything illegitimate about reconciliation or that it was somehow the same as the nuclear option. That said, I’d have no problem with actually “going nuclear” and getting rid of the filibuster altogether. It only takes 50 votes and some gritty determination."
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http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2010/02/nuclear-warfare.php
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It's nice to see Repilicans are getting called out for their latest Lie - saying that Democrats passing the health reform bill through reconciliation is the same as the nuclear option. The Repug cretins are more than well aware that they are lying since they constantly threatened to use the nuclear option and change the rules of the Senate when they wanted to get Bush's judicial appointments confirmed.

Budget reconciliation is how the health care system has been formed in the United States already and Republicans used reconciliation to pass the Bush tax cuts, twice. And it's been used to pass things like COBRA and SCHIP.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-calls-out-republicans-and-me
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Unrestrained majority rule is not a good idea, but when you're dealing with policies like the current health care proposal -- as opposed to issues involving constitutional rights, such as the power to declare war or the freedom of speech -- majority rule is the American way.

It comes down to a choice between two different policies: (a) President Obama's health care reform proposal, or (b) maintaining the current broken system. There's no reason the minority Republicans should be allowed to trump the majority on this question. There's not a constitutional issue at stake, and even if there were, one of the reasons we have a judicial branch of government is to protect those liberties.

It is clear that at long last, Democrats are going to move forward on health care reform, using reconciliation -- the majority option -- to get the job done, letting the nation finally move on from this divisive debate. Republicans have had every opportunity in the world to insert their ideas in the proposal, many of which have been adopted.

If Republicans want to kill health care reform, they're going to need to win an election first. So after Democrats pass reform, the GOP can go ahead and run on repealing it. But if they do want to repeal it, they're going to have to win a majority first, because at least in this country, the minority does not rule.

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I only have one question. Is the only thing democrat posters can do is call those that oppose their viewpoint, names?

Posted by: What a Joke | February 26, 2010 4:01 PM
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Pot, Meet Kettle...

We're all playing a tiny Violin for you, Bobby Mobbie.....waaaaaah!

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Just what this economy needs is more gov't spending and a larger deficit.
Posted by: Terry | February 26, 2010 4:50 PM
^^^^^^^^^

Social security-medicare-police & fire protection-municipal waste treatment and water-libraries-public schools-FDA-special assessments-road taxes.... So which one of these "evil" socialistic programs do you hate the most, Poser Terri?

If America can $pend 3 trillion on the Republicans phony trumped up war in Iraq, America can help it's own with health care. If you actually cared about the deficit you would have said something when your Republican heroes from the past 30+ years were busy spending us into oblivion and creating 3/4 of our current debt, you didn't.

Obama and his Social Democrat Party absolutely MUST use reconciliation to push the current bill through even if they lose both the House and Senate, any hope for an Obama reelection, destroy the rules of the Senate forever by having de facto employed the nuclear option, and suffer the losses from Republicans destroying the entire rest of the Social Democrat agenda for the rest of the year, because the current bill contains one single element that will most assuredly be missing from any other bill they might get passed.

This requirement is the mandatory universal participation that has kept Social Security alive for 70 years. FDR's team had it right. If you extort contributions (taxes) from people for their entire lives, they have every right to expect a return on their "investment" and will be damned if the government that committed the extortion is allowed to renege even though it is their fellow citizens who must suffer ever increasing extortion to make their SS payments.

Government takeover of the health care industry is the key to the successful transition of America to the social democratic state the left has dreamed of since FDR and the raison d’etre of the Obama administration.

To fail here is to fail to foist socialism upon America for yet another generation. Only gutlessness and an addiction to remaining in office can avoid the use of the nuclear option.

REPUBLICAN Jon Kyl: "Reconciliation Is A Perfectly Legitimate Legislative Process To Deal With Budgetary Matters"

"Speaking for Republicans at yesterday’s health care summit, Republican Lamar Alexander (R-TN) called on President Obama and congressional Democrats to “renounce” the reconciliation process to finish health care reform. Though Alexander said it’s “right” that reconciliation has “been used before,” he declared that “it’s never been used for anything like this.” (In fact, reconciliation has been used regularly for health care reform initiatives.)"

"Though conservatives like Alexander have been falsely trying to paint reconciliation as a “nuclear option” that would “bypass rules in the Senate and ram legislation through on a one-party vote.” But their claims were undermined on Monday night when Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ), the Senate Minority Whip, admitted on Hugh Hewitt’s radio show that “reconciliation is a perfectly legitimate process”:

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http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/26/kyl-reconciliation-legitimate/
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Posted by: Terry | February 26, 2010 4:50 PM
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"Reagan proved deficits don't matter."
- Dick Cheney

"Dick Cheney once observed that "deficits don't matter," which may well have been the most honest phrase he ever uttered. His words were at least partly true, which is more than can be said for the great majority of the vice president's remarks -- and they certainly expressed the candid attitude of Republicans whenever they attain power. His pithy fiscal slogan should remind us that much of the current political furor over deficit spending in the Obama budget is wrong, hypocritical, and worthy of the deepest skepticism."

"In our time, the Republican Party has compiled an impressive history of talking about fiscal responsibility while running up unrivaled deficits and debt. Of the roughly $11 trillion in federal debt accumulated to date, more than 90 percent can be attributed to the tenure of three presidents: Ronald Reagan, who used to complain constantly about runaway spending; George Herbert Walker Bush, reputed to be one of those old-fashioned green-eyeshade Republicans; and his spendthrift son George "Dubya" Bush, whose trillion-dollar war and irresponsible tax cuts for the rich accounted for nearly half the entire burden. Only Bill Clinton temporarily reversed the trend with surpluses and started to pay down the debt (by raising rates on the wealthiest taxpayers)."
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http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2009/03/27/deficits/index.html
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Chris Mathews tonight did a brilliant bit on the rote Replican talking twits at this meeting:

"start all over"

"clean slate"

etc. Repeating the same tag lines over and over.

That all they've got, apparently.

They'd better get on board because the train is leaving the station.

Yes, recon it and cram it down their pie holes, then go on the offensive till election day. The dems have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
The Republics proved how bankrupt of ideas they are in yesterdays meeting. They have nothing.
And they have made enough stupid statements and lies to provide campaign fodder for the next three cycles.
The funniest thing said was Lameare's statement that some premium rates would go up.!!?? I guess he is missing all the daily news about 25-39% increases that are happening today under HIS system.
Beyond that, when BHO tossed truth acid in McZombie's face and all he could do was stammer and babble was priceless. All Boner and Can'tnor did was show how 'big' the bill was.

HHH,

Social Security and Medicare are outside of the scope of what the gov't should do. Besides, they are run way over budget. Social Security taxes are over 200 times higher than they were when the program started in 1936. Medicare tax rates have quadrupled and the the cap on income has been lifted.

I'll leave those programs if the gov't refunds my money - they don't even have to pay me interest on the money they have been using for 30 years.

police & fire protection-municipal waste treatment and water - these are gov't functions and should be done by the gov't.

Public schools - private schools do the job better, but public schools should be a state/local issue, not a federal issue.

Building roads - infrastructure - gov't job.

Special assessments? Depends on what it is for.

Do you think gov't should be running health clubs? Golf Courses?

Do you think the gov't should run TV and radio stations?

Subsidize sports stadiums?

Funding the local symphony?

Fund swine odor and manure management research?

How about building airports for few planes? See Johnstown, Pa.

The US has not spent $3 Trillion on the war on terror in Iraq. Try about 1/4 - just over $700 billion -and that includes BO's spending.

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

The difference is the cost of a war is finite, the costs of health care is an infinite obligation.

I did speak-up - worse thing President Bush did in his presidency was letting spending get out of hand - such as the medicare prescription drug program.

As for deficits, see what has happened to them since Nancy took over the House.

HHH, aka K, aka free to be stupid, aka hahaha, don't you have some chores to do around the house for your mommy?

I say we give Republicans their blank sheet of paper

PUT A BLANK SHEET IN THE HEALTH CARE BILL and mark that down as their contribution.

*"This Page Intentionally Left Blank per request of the 2010 Republican Party"*

oy!

Poser Terry,
Republicans have used the sham doctrine of a conservative theory of governance - broadly, smaller government & free markets - as a completely misleading device. It's a myth as realistic as trickle-down economics!

It has worked out to be a total fraud used to explode deficits, transfer tax collections to the private sector through 'privatization,' and then insist upon shared burdens for entitlements to create a regressive tax code which twice enriches the highest income earners (NOT YOU, TERRY) and corporate shareholders.

Then the Repubs moralize about idealisms that they chuckle over amongst themselves as they laugh at fundie Christianist believers, and they rouse the militias (right wing domestic terrorists) with epithets of socialism while they use their extremists to invoke race war.

I don't give Republicans credit for anything because they haven't done anything they have promised to do...ever, over the past 40 years. It is a sham and an outrage.

In the words of the G.H.W. Bush:

"If the American people ever knew what we have done to them, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched."
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- G.H.W. BUSH - in a reply to a question about Iran-Contra to reporter Sarah McClendon in 1993.

McClendon's newsletter had a small circulation. Bush I the Arrogant knew that he could speak freely to her because no one in the traditional media would ever dare use that quote against him, and few McClendon readers would make a difference.

I have objected to Obama's bipartisan initiatives from the outset - he gives too much credibility to what is essentially an elitist oligarchic Repub party that campaigns on a completely sham doctrine and misleads the public.

Basically, the right's political leaders are completely full of crap, and their most reasonable "thinkers" merely lend an intellectual air to what becomes outright fraud whenever Republicans are in power (see Gingrich, Newt). It has become obvious that Democrats are equally challenged to maintain such elitism in a race to the very basest ethics and morality just to keep their heads above water in the competition for campaign funds. Democrats have evolved in 2010 as only slightly better for the people. But the difference in campaign promises is stark.

It's difficult to play a rational game with a child who cheats brazenly, expecting to get caught at any moment. Look to anything Republicans say as complete crap, and you'll be on the right track. No quarter for Republican idiots and morons. They have nothing to contribute but lies and deception - then they steal from the middle class, and condemn the poor as lazy.

HoHoHo,

Vice-President Cheney never imagined defciits in the trillions. Deficits that are a couple of % points of GDP do not matter. When deficits become double digits and for a long-term, yes they matter. Try taking an economics course before you spout off.

Michael Evans

Are you a babbling idiot did you even read the questions, or even better if you read them do you understand them? Most of them when it comes to particular areas of healthcare I would agree with as does the majority of the voters. Most questions related to the current bill the people oppose it. Here is the problem with the loony liberal fanatics, they do not understand that the majority want reform but what they can't get into their little pea brains is that the CURRENT BILL is unacceptable. I do not care what party the person is affiliated with who writes the reform bills as long as they are not 3000 pages long and full of payoffs. And before you go off on one of your little liberal childish name calling rants I am in the majority when it comes to the voters because I am a Independent.

Dmitry Levitzky

Here's another pea brain loony liberal. Tell me what is the difference between using 51 votes to get a judge seated versus using 51 votes to get a tax-and-spend bill passed? There is really no difference but, seeing how it's liberals trying to do it it's fine now. And by the way Rachel MadCOW is lying again. The nuclear option was threatened but never use because of the Gang of 14. If you are going to rely on Rachel MadCOW to get your facts you will be smacked down almost every time.

HHH

Wow the little pea brain liberals are running wild on this one. Read the above and try to answer a question. Is this the best you can do is use a liberal blogger. Come up with a reliable source but, after reading your post and seeing the links you provide I doubt very much you even understand what a reliable source would be. Try a little harder or act like a liberal and do as little as possible.

rebbols

Read the above and answer the question.

I wish President Teleprompter would cut my taxes so I COULD afford Healthcare.

If the Democrats ram this through Congress, there won't be a Dem officeholder at the dog-catcher level or higher by 2012. It won't be the "Rethuglicans" that destroy them, it'll be the vast majority (yes, including the Tea Partiers) that oppose this 2,400 page monstrosity and will always remember who voted for it.

HoHoHo,

The GOP has strayed from the conservative principles and piad dearly in 2006. When they stay with smaller gov't and trust free markets, they succeed.

Supply-side economics is trhe best thing that happens for the gov't - more revenues come in becuase of the incentives of lower tax rates on the investors and producers in the economy, who create the jobs needed.

A regressive tax code? You need to brush up on your terminology. The federal income tax code is as progressive as it gets and BO is making it worse.

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

As for Gingrich, Clinton should thank him for saving his presidency. W/O the GOP takeover of Congress in 1994, Clinton would have been a one-term president. He was running up deficits ($200 billion as far as the eye could see) until Newt came along.

Once again, an economics course would serve you well

Terry, you are too smart to waste your time arguing with parrots. "HHH" will have no response. He did not write what he originally posted, so how can he defend it? He copied it from DailyKos, and tried to pass it off as his own thought. When you challenge him on it, he disappears. Here is the article on DailyKos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/2/26/840914/-The-LordsMoral-Cowardice.

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It's easy to pick these out. When one of the demented lefties on the Swamp actually uses complete sentences, take a piece of it and put it in Google and you'll find where they stole it from.

Herbie,

Intellectual aruguments with HoHoHo is just battling the unarmed. I like the advantage. If that's the best the Kos has to offer, that is a pretty pathetic web site.

"When one of the demented lefties"

HH,
When I googled your words I got 36,000 hits.