Healthcare: $940 billion over 10 years

In ramming through an immensely unpopular 2,700-page health care bill using brute force tactics, Obama and Democrats are passing what amounts to the longest suicide note in history. Their own pollsters are telling them the public is firmly against their "reform" plan and is rebelling against their tactics. And the response from Obama and Democrats is to press their foot down even harder on the gas pedal. We'll see how that works out for them. The fact is, Obama could care less what Americans want. He's blinded by ideology and his fantasy of a Euro-style, socialist America where he is the king. Obama is now upside down in the new Gallop Poll -- 47 percent of Americans disapprove of him vs. 46 percent that approve. And the backlash against Obama and Democrats is only just beginning. This health care "reform" bill is a travesty -- and Americans know it.

"Healthcare: $940 billion over 10 years"


If you believe that, I have some prime oceanfront realty to sell you.

One of the biggest problems with the cost estimate is that it uses 10 years of taxation and only 6 years of payout. (The first 4 years there is no health care reform, only taxes). Thus, right away, you don't have an equal distribution of paying in vs paying out. Well done....NOT.

Furthermore, the medicare reimbursement cuts (ie. Doctor Fix), is NOT included in this bill at all. Thus, once those are implemented, the savings go out the window and costs increase.

If you add in the medicare fix as well as a 10 year pay in vs 10 year pay out, there is NO WAY this bill is deficit neutral.

Wow, when has a government budget proposal ever fallen within the CBO projection? Isn't this the same proposal that we will be taxed for 5 years before any of these benefits actually kick in.

cost of the pointless, riddled with fraud and waste wars:
3 trillion+ and growing

cost of bank bailouts:
3+ trillion and growing

The astronomical amount of waste and fraud in medicare and medicaid ?
billions upon billions

It's about time something was done to benefit the American people for a change.

The amount being spent is nothing compared to what is spent annually for war funding and corporate bailouts, but where are all the critics for that? Blank checks for war and killing and banks and corporations, that's fine; spend money that would actually help people, that's a problem.

Notice the article has no link to any CBO document, let alone the text of the "bill" (which has not yet been "publicly unveiled").
Because, according to politico.com, the actual CBO statement hasn't been released yet.
Instead, what the Swamp journalists are going on is what the Democratic Party leaders claim is in the CBO report. And what the Dem Party leadership claim is in the as-yet-secret bill.
Imagine--journalists relying on what self-interested politicians say.
Imagine--journalists who use the Dem Party leadership as their sole source for news
Imagine--journalists writing about a "bill" that nobody but the Dem Party leadership has seen. Remember "transparency"?

$940 Billion to be wasted on a smoke-and-mirrors program. $940 Billion could be used to build 4,700,000 new schools in disintegrating neighborhoods in America; $940 Billion could pay the salaries of 9.4 million new medical doctors, or of 18,8 million new police officers or teachers. Any of which would contribute so much to a betterment of America. But instead, we get Obamacare, legislation that not one person -- including Obama himself -- has read. So much for our "representative republic."

Letter from CBO director to Pelosi this morning...amazing how she leaves out the details.

In a letter sent to Speaker Pelosi this morning, CBO Director Doug Elmendorf remarked:

“Although CBO completed a preliminary review of legislative language prior to its release, the agency has not thoroughly examined the reconciliation proposal to verify its consistency with the previous draft. This estimate is therefore preliminary, pending a review of the language of the reconciliation proposal, as well as further review and refinement of the budgetary projections.” (CBO Director Doug Elmendorf, Letter To Rep. Nancy Pelosi, 3/18/10, P.1)

http://www.drudgereport.com/

Add in the 'doc fix' and any number of other proposals and you're WAY over $1 trillion. Doesn't matter what it costs--it's still garbage, and the Dems are gutless for having carried out this process the way they have. They take the American citizenry as dumb, country bumpkins who are too stupid to understand what they're doing. The next several elections will either confirm or refute that hypothesis. Oh, and when was the last time that a government-run anything came in at the expected cost point? That alone puts this estimate well below what the ultimate cost will be. Don't be fooled, people. You can still want reform but be appalled at the garbage that is being presented to you.

Lets see how giddy they will be in the next election when the people vote them out. And this is coming from someone who has voted Democrat most of their life. The government has NO BUSINESS telling me how to spend my money.

"Seth",
"...Blank checks for war and killing and banks and corporations, that's fine; spend money that would actually help people, that's a problem."
---
You lefties sure like to use strawmen in your arguments. The vast majority of us "conservatives" are AGAINST corporate/bank bailouts! If you'd take your head out of your liberal pamphlets once in a while, you'd see the truth... Also, we AL want some degree of healthcare reform; it's just that this monstrosity currently in Congress will makes things worse, not better.

Posted by: Bruce, waiting for first-hand information | March 18, 2010 11:52 AM
;
Bruce, my little man-child, if you don't know what's in the bill how can you be against it? Please explain.

Here is the report:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/us/20100318_cbo_report.pdf

If you don't trust a nonpartisan report, what do you propose as an alternative?

I'm turning 60 this May and can't afford health insurance. At 65, when this new Obamacare crap kicks in and I'm finally elgible for medicare, the dems will have ruined the best health care system the world has ever known. Thanks a lot Pelosi & Reid.

This is nuts. No way do I support the spending of $940,000,000,000.00. by this government.

n ramming through an immensely unpopular 2,700-page health care bill using brute force tactics, Obama and Democrats are passing what amounts to the longest suicide note in history. Their own pollsters are telling them the public is firmly against their "reform" plan and is rebelling against their tactics. And the response from Obama and Democrats is to press their foot down even harder on the gas pedal. We'll see how that works out for them. The fact is, Obama could care less what Americans want. He's blinded by ideology and his fantasy of a Euro-style, socialist America where he is the king. Obama is now upside down in the new Gallop Poll -- 47 percent of Americans disapprove of him vs. 46 percent that approve. And the backlash against Obama and Democrats is only just beginning. This health care "reform" bill is a travesty -- and Americans know it.

Posted by: Jackson | March 18, 2010 11:31 AM

It's really dumb-a ss comments like this that have bedeviled this initiative for months and years. The public may be against the bill, but only because "the public" has been taken in by the crude fear-mongering of the insurance agency. What do you want to do, Jackson? Continue to pay ever-spiralling premiums only to be told when you are ill that the insurance company could care less and you are dropped? What are you, mental? Health care unregulated will ruin this country, not this bill, which, if you cared to look at it closely, Jackson, and not just spout off idiotically, will help to cut deficits. Get a clue, insurance company hack.

The devil is in the details and we don't have them YET. We'll have 72 hours to read about the Nebraska deal, the Connecticut deal, the Louisiana deal and who knows what else. Anyone believe we're gonna get it? Should be avail. now if voting on Sunday, no? This sham oa a presidendency can't end too soon. He's out to destroy American and the sheeple are allowing him to do it. SHAME!

Sensible, How on earth can you bash someone who's against the bill because they haven't read it? Have you? The point is our own "LEADERS" haven't either.

Pelosi said we can look at it after it passes!

Would you sign a contract you haven't even READ?

Most Americans want healthcare reform. HOWEVER, they don't want something so huge that has had little or no understanding, rammed through in the name of "change"

The magnitude of this in scope and cost require FULL understanding of whats at hand.

All you need to know is this - congress thinks we are all dumb as rocks (They are mostly right) and the letter from the CBO clearly states this is essentially a big guess

****
n a letter sent to Speaker Pelosi this morning, CBO Director Doug Elmendorf remarked:

“Although CBO completed a preliminary review of legislative language prior to its release, the agency has not thoroughly examined the reconciliation proposal to verify its consistency with the previous draft. This estimate is therefore preliminary, pending a review of the language of the reconciliation proposal, as well as further review and refinement of the budgetary projections.” (CBO Director Doug Elmendorf, Letter To Rep. Nancy Pelosi, 3/18/10, P.1)

Why are they not reporting on numerous radio stations that CBO report is not complete and just an estimate, Pelosi is a liar, this is just to mislead the people again, How can any of us believe anything the DemocRATS are telling us ? I am becoming more and more disgruntled with our elected officials. I will vote out any that I DEEM not looking out for the people and putting their party first beofre the will of the people !

We are literally being played for fools.

Memo to sensible re his or her email reply to Bruce:

Opponents (including a host of Dems in the House who will be shut out in the process) have fronted a number of excellent proposals and none, the operative word none, is being considered. It's obvious you've had your rabies vaccination because you're right out of the same ilk with the zany, wide-eyed, frothing at the mouth Speaker Pelosi and the laid back Tsar of the Senate Harry Reid. The late Jim Jones would be proud of you. And if you're a graduate of the Chicago Public Schools the past 25 years or so, just Google the name on the Internet.

Unimpressed with how "little" this is said - before the fact - to cost.

There hasn't been a GAO or CBO estimate that has even been within two standard deviations of the actual cost when all was said and done. Why does anyone believe this will be the first?

The standard rule for deriving a more/less accurate estimate: double it and add a zero to the left of the decimal point.

CBO estimate <$1T in 10 years?

rwilymz estimates $20T in ten years - backloaded.

I'll end up being far closer.

-One of the biggest problems with the cost estimate is that it uses 10 years of taxation and only 6 years of payout. (The first 4 years there is no health care reform, only taxes). Thus, right away, you don't have an equal distribution of paying in vs paying out. Well done....NOT.

Furthermore, the medicare reimbursement cuts (ie. Doctor Fix), is NOT included in this bill at all. Thus, once those are implemented, the savings go out the window and costs increase.

If you add in the medicare fix as well as a 10 year pay in vs 10 year pay out, there is NO WAY this bill is deficit neutral.-

Exactly Chad, if I understand the breakdown on this correctly, this is the same 'have now, pay later' system that has been prevalent in this administration.

This health care bill is essentially a balloon mortgage. Starts out great and affordable, then 10 years from now, the costs are out of control because its time to pay all that back. We all know how balloon mortgages worked out for us, don't we?

And I have a question...yea, not denying people due to pre-existing conditions SOUNDS great, but how will this bill handle those who choose NOT to get health insurance, so they aren't paying into the system...then they find out they have cancer and THEN get insurance. Since they can't be denied, they get covered. See where I'm going? If everyone knows this, then what's to stop everyone from deciding to NOT throw money into insurance and just get it when they need it? It WILL happen unless there is something in place to stop it. Not to mention the fact that it ignores how insurance works to begin with. Millions paying in monthly to "insure" coverage if/when they get sick. If not enough people pay into the system, but more people are using it under this bill, then what happenes? Supply vs demand people. If the demand far exceeds the supply, prices go up. WAY up.

Why can't there be laws and created to regulate the current system so that drug companies and medical supply companies aren't the ones dictating the high costs that are astronomically raising prices for all?

Why can't the immigration laws be enforced so that hospitals don't have to charge astronomical fees for service to cover the hundreds of thousands of illegals who use the services but don't pay?

Why can't the government look at all of the MAJOR pork of money it frivolously spends on absolutely worthless things and funnel THAT into covering this health care bill?

Why? Because that would require too much work. Its far easier to create something out of a lot of smoke and mirrors and hope the average American voter isn't smart enough to see it for what it is and say NO to it. Because that's what our President and apparently most of the Democratic party think the average American citizen is. A dolt who will just accept what is given to them like helpless baby birds. Unfortunately, they are probably right in many cases.

If they are so confident that THIS is the best thing for the American public, then 1. They should sign themselves up for it, and their families. 2. They should publish every last page of this thing for the public to read. 3. These hearings should be covered on the news and be 'transparent' as the President promised they would be.

I would love it if every American citizen had access to affordable, great health care. We should. But I don't believe our government is capable of providing one. They are far too busy playing partisan poker and scheming new ways to pad their own bloated pockets. I say this about BOTH political parties mind you. It won't end until the American people say enough. Stop being sheeple and really understand who/what you are voting for before you do so. Hold your elected officials accountable, and when they fail, kick them to the curb and put someone else in who can do the job.

Until then, business as usual will continue to take this country down this death spiral we have only just begun.

it's going to pass - get over it. the republican party is over the republican nominee for governor in Ill is typical - want's to kill shelter animals that have not be adopted - is against abortion even in the case of rape/incest and wants to limit the number of mammograms poor women receive. Nice guy!

lso, we AL want some degree of healthcare reform; it's just that this monstrosity currently in Congress will makes things worse, not better.

Posted by: Carl-C

Do you really expect anyone to believe that? Seriously? You guys have to make up your mind. If you really believed the system was broken, you would've tried to fix it while you were in power. The double-speak on the right is ridiculous. Many will say that we have the best healthcare in the world and that it should be left as is. That's the argument why nothing was done when you were in power. Then you turn around and say that it is broken and you want a hand in writing the reform. But we all know, if the right gets back in power, they'll undue the reform and install the same system they sometimes claim is broken.

Both parties have known that healthcare reform is damaging politically. Because it's much easier to sit back and try to scare people with untrue catch phrases (death panels) than it is to explain how a complicated fix will be implemented. Finally we have an administration that has the stones to say, "you know what, we realize this will hit us in the polls, but we will do what we believe is right and long overdue".

And if as the right claims, this is complete political suicide, then why are they trying to stop it? Shouldn't they just be stepping aside if they truly believe the left is running off the cliff and the right will be back in power and can undue everything before it becomes implemented?

Lots of dishonesty and doublespeak from the right.

Memo to sensible re his or her email reply to Bruce:

Opponents (including a host of Dems in the House who will be shut out in the process) have fronted a number of excellent proposals and none, the operative word none, is being considered. It's obvious you've had your rabies vaccination because you're right out of the same ilk with the zany, wide-eyed, frothing at the mouth Speaker Pelosi and the laid back Tsar of the Senate Harry Reid. The late Jim Jones would be proud of you. And if you're a graduate of the Chicago Public Schools the past 25 years or so, just Google the name on the Internet.

The Democrats won't be so "giddy" in November.

They will be "deemed" out of office by the outraged American public.

A sea change is coming to Washington.

Know the facts before you complain. Go to factcheck.org Insurance companies are spending your benefits money to trick you into fighting for them. And they know it's working. Who would have thought so many people would fight for a 15%+ yearly increase in health insurance rates.
Republicans had 8 years to fix the problem. Obviously they didn't think a 15% yearly increase on health insurance for Americans is important. Maybe if the Dems referred to the 15% increase as a private company instituted TAX on America, more Americans would realize how ridiculous doing nothing is.

"Seth",
"...Blank checks for war and killing and banks and corporations, that's fine; spend money that would actually help people, that's a problem."
---
You lefties sure like to use strawmen in your arguments. The vast majority of us "conservatives" are AGAINST corporate/bank bailouts! If you'd take your head out of your liberal pamphlets once in a while, you'd see the truth... Also, we AL want some degree of healthcare reform; it's just that this monstrosity currently in Congress will makes things worse, not better.

Posted by: Carl-C | March 18, 2010 12:13 PM

~~~~~

you " conservatives " had your opportunity to reform healthcare when you were the majority and you couldn't even get a bill out of committee.!

now it's time for the adults to take charge, so kindly step aside and quit your bloviating and let the real conservatives do what needs to be done.

you folks are all talk and no action but considering who really pulls your strings, it's no wonder.

History repeats itself. Medicare was NEVER to cost more than the 9 billion dollars the democrats said. AND in the first year cost over 21 billion. More lying and mis-statements. With this kind of irresponsible drunken spending the country will go begging China for more money when the U.S. bankruptcy is declared. The incompetents in Washington think that one can continue to live above ones means. The lessons from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae now seem to mean nothing. But of course the grafters like Franks and Dodds get special mortgage rates and everyone else HAS to pay the REAL costs. Good luck.

Just wait until the Medicare cuts go into effect and there's even more cost-shifting to patients with insurance. Watch your premiums and co-pays go up, up, up.

Investor's Business Daily has issued a report on the CBO projections.
Nobody expects the DNC Swamp to present both sides, so in the interests of equal time, here is the link:

http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/1524-five-reasons-the-cbo-figures-are-phony

"We're absolutely giddy over the great news we have gotten from CBO," Rep. James Clyburn, (D-S.C.) the House majority whip, told reporters.

So tell me, Jimmy. How giddy you going to be when come the next time you are up for re-election, the voters end up throwing you out of office for your voting for this boondoogle nightmare?

If they shift $500 billion from medicare/medicaid to the "new" entitlement program you will see more of this
***

More than a hundred Walgreens drugstores will stop accepting new Medicaid patients next month because the company claims it is losing money, the Seattle Times reported Thursday.

The drugstore chain claims the state's Medicaid program reimburses it at less than the break-even point for 95 percent

In February, Bartell Drugs made a similar move, opting to stop accepting new Medicaid patients at 57 of its stores in Washington state.

Interesting that Big Pharma got everything it wants in the current bill:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Dems-tap-drugmaker-millions-for-PhRMA-friendly-bill-87852997.html

Only 17 billion of this is in the first 4 years, leaving 923 billion in six years, or 158B / year.

If you multiply that 158 by 10 years you get a total cost of 1.58 TRILLION.

Check out the charts on the CBO web site http://www.cbo.gov/ for the real picture

Take a good look at where gov't revenues come from... look at hte person income tax take off like a rocket.

It's NOT over 10 years. The COSTS are over 6 years and the revenue is over 10 years. If they did it over the full ten years, the actual costs would be much larger.

Don't forget, taxes and fees on us will be going way up to cover this.

Some of the "savings" is because they are assuming that we will foot more of the bill.

This whole bill is a trainwreck, I guess that's why something like 70% of the people want them to start over.

Let the democrooks be "giddy" all the way up to the time when they are removed from office. Passing this $1,000,000,000,000.00 "reform" mess against the will of "we the people" will assure their demise. They will be removed from office one way or the other.

What gets lost in all the rhetoric is that this is the largest tax increase in American history, on the scale of $500Billion. When the costs of these programs get passed on to the states to fund down the road, you will see HUGE tax increases. Congress will deny it was them; state politicians will blame Congress; taxpayers will get screwed and be handed the bill; Obama will have moved on and be making millions without any concern for health care and say he wasn't responsible; Pelosi and Reid will do likewise. In the final analysis WE the citizens will be in a far worse position with health care we can't afford, and the insurance companies and big pharma will be laughing all the way to the bank as they cash their big bonus checks, like Wall Street. The CBO estimates are based on what the members of Congress give them, and they are giving them bad data so the estimates are bad. Does anyone believe any estimate from any government? They are NEVER under their estimates and you only need look at military and civilian projects done by the government - 100% cost overruns in ranges that would get any private sector worker fired for the mistake. We really do need to get rid of all these jerks. Amateurs can do better.

These cost estimates are an absolute joke. The CBO does their job based on assumptions given to them, which have around a 0% chance of being accurate. If someone can logically explain how you can enact one of the largest government plans ever and spend less money, I would love to hear it. I am trying to think of one large government program that has met its cost estimates, social security, medicare? There are so many better ways than this plan to improve the health care system. It is a shame none of them are even being considered. The Democrats and Obama have made this a win at all costs situation regardless of how bad the legislation is.

Elemendorf just sent a letter to Pelosi this morning, basically defenestrating all of the Dem's claims. So now that the Dem - appointed head of the CBO has called them out (yet again) on their abject misrepresentations, what will they try next? Perhaps an ouija board?

Nice how they keep moving the goalposts. Obama first said the bill should be less than $900 billion. Now it's $940 billion and they are "giddy" that it is less than $1 trillion? The arguments about the GOP's spending binges notwithstanding, the Democrats should be using all new "revenue" (read taxes) to pay down the debt, and not spend $940 billion of it on a new government entitlement program. If there is really that much savings to be had in Medicare, let's do it without expanding other programs so we pay down some of the $38 trillion unfunded liability.

If you think healthcare is expensive, check out this website showing the cost of the mideast wars we have been involved in since 2001. A fraction of this would pay for universal healthcare many times over!!!

http://costofwar.com/

99% of politicians have two goals and will stop at nothing to achieve these goals:

1 - Getting (themselves/family/friends) elected/appointed

2 - Getting (themselves/family/friends) re-elected/re-appointed

Once you accept this you can see through all of the partisan lies from all sides. You have to think and educate yourself or lose it all to the career crooks.

Yeah, no one loves the price tag, but we need it. And it's obvious what the author of this article's opinion is by the title, mentioning the Dems are "Giddy". I'm tired of the healthcare system taking advantage of all of us. -And I HAVE insurance!!!

When did people stop believing in democracy?

@Independent

Where did you learn how to do math? The cost of these wars (which 77% of congress approved of) is about $972 Billion. The bogus numbers of healthcare cost is going to be $940 Billion.

What "fraction" of $972 war costs would pay for universal healthcare many time over?

ID __ DIOT!

940 billion, divided by 300,000,000 Americans, divided by the 10years, equals 27 dollars a person. The naysayers and voodoo math infected can't seem to wrap their mind around the fact that this health care plan costs LESS than a tank of gas. When all is said and done, people will like it, especially after the factually challenged "death panel, socialized medicine, it cost too much" goofballs are outed by the FACTS.

Goodbye, America's AAA Bond rating.

It was nice knowing you. I guess we'll let China and India be the leaders from now on.

Well congrats America. You wanted a socialist for President and now you got it. Now sit back and bask in the mess you and the rest of the idiots created for putting him and his fellow Democrats in. Its nice to see just how much they follow the will of the people and do all that they can to help us out.

the right wing in this country are like sheep, they just follow whatever their corporate masters tell them - i command you to: support banks ripping you off and fend off any regulation, yes master; support insurance companies continue offering crappy coverage and service, yes master; ...these people have no facts just bumper sticker politics - sad, very sad

remember, republicans had the house and senate for over eight years and all they did was run up the deficit, bankrupt the country and strengthen ties with communist china...when will people get it. you may also throw the dem politicians in illinois state and city legislator with the republicans

Why not call it "Health Care tax on all who work"? And why no one talks about reducing health care cost? A lot of medical conditions are caused by obesity in this country - and now I am supposed to pay for that?

@lamonth - Are from Illinois? You can't be claiming one party is better than the other certainly not using Illinois as an example. HAHAHA!

940 billion, divided by 300,000,000 Americans, divided by the 10years, equals 27 dollars a person. The naysayers and voodoo math infected can't seem to wrap their mind around the fact that this health care plan costs LESS than a tank of gas. When all is said and done, people will like it, especially after the factually challenged "death panel, socialized medicine, it cost too much" goofballs are outed by the FACTS.

Posted by: Bopper | March 18, 2010 1:47 PM
***

Another "math" genius speaks. No wonder these politicians think we are dumb as heck.

A lot of medical conditions are caused by obesity in this country - and now I am supposed to pay for that?

Posted by: John

Yet when the current administration tries to do something to force restaurants to display the nutritional content, or set limits on the amount of sodium and other fat builders in food, the right cries that they're trying to tell you how to live life.

Recap from the right: It makes us so mad that you guys are all fat, but we're going to stand in the way of anything that prevents you from getting fatter, because it's your God given right to get fat

House Budget Committee Ranking Republican Paul Ryan (WI) issued the following statement:

“The Congressional Budget Office has confirmed that there is currently no official cost estimate. Yet House Democrats are touting to the press – and spinning for partisan gain – numbers that have not been released and are impossible to confirm. Rep. James Clyburn stated he was “giddy” about these unsubstantiated numbers. This is the latest outrageous exploitation by the Majority – in this case abusing the confidentiality of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office – to pass their massive health care overhaul at any cost.”

Can someone explain in some detail why people are "afraid" of health care reform??? Please don't respond with some partisan BS answer either which is what I keep seeing on posts like this. Will my health insurance rates go thru the roof? Will I lose my current insurance and have to go with some inferior government back plan? Will more money be taken out of my pay check to pay for this? Please, if anyone has real answers (and not more partisan hearsay BS) please respond. Thanks.

Keep up the good work, President Obama and Vice-Preident Biden, you'll get us out of that economic crater, into which the Draft-dodging Duo, Bush&Cheney, left us. The possible passage of the Healthcare Insurer's reform is only the beginning. Then, it is on to the corralling of the Weasels on Wall Street and the Bagmen of our Boardrooms !! By the time, you have completed your terms, we may be able to recognize America again, for what she is, "... land of the free and home of the brave", " with liberty and justice for all " !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

What we really need is "health care" reform, not "health care insurance" reform. Get rid of the middlemen, insurance companies, that make more money by denying claims.

Rep. Steve King (R-IA) — speaking with Fox News host Glenn Beck on his radio show this morning — said the timing of the vote is unholy. He warned that Democrats intend to “take away the liberty that we have right from God” on “the Sabbath, during Lent.” Beck agreed, calling the Sunday vote an “affront to God,” and something “our founders would have never” done “[o]ut of respect for

For those 50 and over, this bill will be our death. Will be no health care for us, or anybody that has a serious pre-existing condition. And the Government will get to say who lives and dies. Sounds like NAZI GERMANY all over again. Thanks for nothing Dumbocrats. Oh, that's right you will not be saved either. How's that for poetic justice.

Charles - if you believe that the US healthcare system is 'best health care system the world has ever known' then I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

Let's see how giddy the are after the November mid-terms.

Good to see that even if the Health Insurance lobby is working against the American people's interest, they're at least providing jobs for all the paid shills posting here today against the bill.

Way to go! Hooray for the Corporate States of America!

Here's one four-letter word everyone seems to forget in this healthcare commentary...JOBS

Get ready for higher taxes after the elections of course. The Health Bill, which has the States picking up Medicaid expenses in a few years is going to cost a bundle. Has anybody noticed that the State of Illinois is one of the worst run States in the Union and cannot not pay its bills now. How is Springfield going to cover this added cost without much higher taxes? And the Federal Government, which as it has done in the past, is going to put add on programs to the Health Care Program that will more expenses cause cost overruns. How are we going to pay for that without massive tax increases? And if we have a double dip recession, which is very possible, tax revenues will continue to go down and the number of unemployed Americans will go up. The Obama Administration and the Democratic Leadership really has its priorities messed up. They have wasted an entire year on what is really a watered down Health Bill from the original with all sorts of goodies such as the Nebraska Compromise and the Louisiana Purchase to name a few while Americans continue to lose their jobs. As long as the goodies were being handed out why couldn't Durbin and Burris get some for Illinois. All they got for Illinois was the purchase of Thomson Prison to house Terrorists. And this probably will Not happen because the Congress will probably never allow it to happen. There is no free lunch folks. So don't complain, here comes the higher taxes that Obama, Pelosi and Reid are afraid to tell you about. For those of you still working get ready for a double whammy of higher taxes. And in ending I want to apologize to my children and grandchildren who are going to being stuck paying for all this through high taxes. They are going to hate us for the big mess we left them for generations to come.

Wouldn't it be nice if ALL elected officials had to kick in 20% of their public income for this bill?

More than a hundred Walgreens drugstores will stop accepting new Medicaid patients next month because the company claims it is losing money, the Seattle Times reported Thursday.

The drugstore chain claims the state's Medicaid program reimburses it at less than the break-even point for 95 percent

In February, Bartell Drugs made a similar move, opting to stop accepting new Medicaid patients at 57 of its stores in Washington state.

Posted by: MinisterR | March 18, 2010 1:07 PM

~~~~
Walmart fills most perscriptions for FIVE BUCKS.

@bopper: Your math is the real voodoo here. Only 100 million have a Federal tax liability so they will bear the entire cost, not 300 million. The CBO 10 year score is bogus because it reflects only 6 years of benefits. The "out year" score is totally unreliable as it always is. Remember LBJ said we could never spend the Social Security Trust Fund surplus.... well we have and more.

The government has NO BUSINESS telling me how to spend my money.

Posted by: FatNSassy | March 18, 2010 12:11 PM

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....and you actually believe that. Tell that to the gas station (taxes)....social security (taxes)....property taxes.....and a variety of other fees ....You say no to taxes or fees....ok...no police.....no utilities...no paved streets....no military....please give me a break.

Your statement sounds nice but isn't based on reality.

pass the dang bill. My only regret is that this bill didn't become progressive enough. It's lukewarm but it will still be better then nothing.

After you pass this bill, pass the medicare buy-in bill proposed by Grayson. Where anyone, at any age can buy into Medicare at cost. Greatest idea ever no? Having the choice to pick Medicare or Aetna, I'll take the government plan every time.

Hey Chord....thank you for your comment. I wonder how those shills look themselves in the mirror each morning......
VIT73...NO...no-one believes this is the best the HC system in the world. Ergo this HC plan to get us there...step by step............
Hey DARKWATER......how much were you paid to post that dreck. My uncle was carried out of Buckenwald on a streatcher so your reference to this country being a NAZI state is so incredibly offence to me and to all the other people whose families lived through that horror....SHAME ON YOU!!!..............
MISTERR.....$972 billion is just for the one war. The one in Iraq. You know, the one which was based on WMD tlies and the one that cheney Tim Russet that the war would cost us only $80 billion. Of those $972 billions..... Halliburton Overcharges were Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported - $1.4 billion.

Direct from the Treasury Dept We are in effect bankrupt right now. The last thin we can afford is creating massive new entitlement programs and giant government bureaucracies. If we have to, let's just add people to the existing programs and then deal with them.

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The U.S. government is committed under current law to mandatory payments for programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. The GAO projects that payouts for these programs will significantly exceed tax revenues

The present value of these deficits or unfunded obligations is an estimated $41 trillion.

Now that the "bill" is posted we can see all the backroom deals. Pork added to the "bill" that has nothing to do with the HC - on top of that the bribe for the yes vote.

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There is a provision in the reconciliation bill that exempts the Bank of North Dakota from new restrictions on private student loan companies.

The bank is a nonprofit, and the only one in the country owned by a state. Given the unique status of the bank, it will be the only lender remaining outside of the Department of Education's direct-lending system.

Sen. Kent Conrad (D-ND) defended the provision

Good to see that even if the Health Insurance lobby is working against the American people's interest, they're at least providing jobs for all the paid shills posting here today against the bill.

Way to go! Hooray for the Corporate States of America!

Posted by: Chord | March 18, 2010 2:40 PM

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Which branch of ACORN or OFA do you work for? Since obviously you can't believe that regular people don't agree with you. Is this how you go through life? Your view is the only and correct view?

How can this CBO even give a number when they had not even seen the House bill or the adjustments made to the Senate bill. The Senate's reconciliation bill was released after the estimates from the CBO this is a sham. Plus there are two more sleazy bride to Representatives to go along with the Cornhusker Payoff and Louisiana Purchas. The two new brides are the North Dakota Bank Bailout and the Ohio Construction Fund. I notice how the mainstream media keeps ballyhooing when they hear a liberal is going to vote yes but, report nothing about that three that have changed their vote to no.

D Chicago

Do you know the difference between paying a tax and purchasing something? The Government does not a force us to buy gas but they will be forcing us to buy insurance. And you're idiotic BS about no police, no military, and no paved streets is just plain stupid.

From ABC's Night Line. Enough fraud to cover most of the cost of this supposed life saving bill.

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A four month "Nightline" investigation into Medicare fraud makes one thing perfectly clear: this is a crime that pays and pays and pays. The federal government admits that a staggering $60 billion is stolen from tax payers through Medicare scams every year. Some experts believe the number is more than twice that.

Only a democrat would be giddy about blowing $940 billion of money we DON'T have during an economy like this. Yes, yes, they say it'll save money in 10 years. Ask massachusetts how that's going.

Surely this estimate is as accurate as Daley's estimate for Millenium Park. You folks can correct me if you like, but didn't the real cost end up triple the estimate? Didn't Daley put the arm on the Pritzkers to get it finished?

4 year delay in benefits means that the cost is 920 billion over 6 years.

920/6 = 153

1.5 trillion per decade in new government largess. Good times.

THINK about this!!! 10 years of taxes and 6 years of benefits. This country is broke!!! What is so hard for people to understand we simply can't afford this???!!! What needs to be repealed are the regulations that don't allow inter-state competition for insurers. We NEED tort reform...as in "Loser Pays" the other sides expenses when they lose litigation. CUT. THE. DAMN. GOVERNMENT. SPENDING! In the course of 20 years the USA has gone from the largest lender nation to the largest debtor nation. BRING BACK THE GLASS STEAGALL ACT!!!

I could go on, but it amazes me how stupid people are when it comes to simple economics

Rep. Roskam brought forth an issue yesterday we have forgotten to address, i.e., since states also contribute to the overall medicare/medicaid costs, how can the State of Illinois (California, Michigan, etc.) afford this?

Can anybody me tell when government spending is exactly what was projected? Because it if it ever was, we wouldn't have the trillion-dollar deficit that we have today. How long will it take for that $940 billion to become 2 trillion or more when the real spending is accounted for? If Democrats think that they can fool the American people, they might rethink that strategy.

Dear Retarded(slow, lagging behind) Republicans who are attacking the CBO estimates. Can we safely assume that if the CBO said the plan would cost $3 Trillion in defecits, bankrupt USA, and turn us into Marxists you all would be saying, "its just an estimate and doesn't mean anything"???? Bunch of retards (people who are slow, lagging behind).

Except it's a lie - I just listened to two people from the Wall Street Journal talk about how the numbers were scewed. If you people really believe it, I have some swamp land for sale!

cjr - what in the world are you talking about?
Well, you Obama kool aid drinkers - you got what you wanted and now we are all going to pay for it. We'll see how all the young people like their hero in about 10 years when they are being taxed to death!

Isn't it absolutely amazing that 1 President and 535 individuals, who by the will NEVER be affected by this "bill", are voting to again increase the national debt....this time for the next 20 years, or more !!! WHAT NERVE !!! Only one solution ffellow Americans...THROW EM ALL OUT IN NOVEMBER !!!

I wonder if these clowns in Washington actually think we are that dumb.So because it is not a trillion dollars,there is a celebration?Sorry,but I like to deal with whole numbers.I will round $940 billion up to a trillion dollars,thank you.It is just like all the things you see on T.V. that cost $19.99.who the hell is impressed by saving a penny.It is $20 plus taxes and shipping.And BTW,please name one,just one government estimate that actually comes in on target.Seems to me like every single government program comes in over budget.Like every single road project for example.

If anybody thinks health care will *only* cost $940 Billion,I have an oceanfront condo in Montana to sell you.Real cheap.

Wasn't this bill supposed to be budget neutral????

(Swamp note: The criterion that the president has long set was "deficit neutral,'' not making the deficit worse. The CBO report scores the plan as a deficit-cutter. More is saved than spent, by their estimation.)

To quote Nancy PeLOUSY for my own benefit, If this "Deemed to have passed" legislation is signed, then I will "Deem myself to have health insurance" and not worry about the government knowing whether or not I have insurance.

Also "I have deemed to already paid my taxes" and thus won't be paying any taxes to support these bozos hijacking this great country.

Regarding the Slaughter Rule, Dear Leader stated:

"I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what the procedural rules are in the House or Senate,"

The mask is definitely slipping. According to the Chosen One, who cares about the "rule of law" as long as he gets his way? That's the signature of a third-world dictatorship, not a constitutional government!

Still Writing Wrong and Seth,

Three Trillion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Try again - this from a liberal website - not even a Trillion yet.

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

Cost of the bank bailout, which by the way BO voted for is currently under a Trillion dollars Estimates are that those cost could be much higher - that is primarily due to Fannie and Freddie - the gov't sponsored entities.

The major difference is that wars and bank bailouts are finite events and teh costs come to an end. However, gov't run health care will become an entitlement that will add to the deficit (contrary to the CBO) for decades to come. - See SocSec and Medicare.

Andy,

As for the CBO numbers, they just present the bill in front of them without all the gimmicks - 6 years of expenses, 10 years of revenues, doc fix, etc...

As anyone will tell you that works with models - GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out - jsut like TrickledOn HoHoHo's posts.

Have either of the gov'ts other social programs - Medicare and Social Security come in under their original budgets. No. Social Security tax rates have gone up six-fold since its inception and the amount of taxes have increased 220 fold. Medicare tax rates have quadrupled and the payroll cap has been eliminated. Give this a few years and there will be tax increases on those earning under $250K.

This is just more freeloading on the economic wagon.

Hey Independent and Free

Under the Socialists opps I mean Democrats this great country is turning into NAZI GERMANY. If that offends you good. Maybe you get off your fat ass and do something about this. People need to be offended by this bozo of a president and congress because we are not going to be independent and free much longer under this quack of a president! And I didn't get paid a dime for my opinion.

When Rod Blagoyavich cut deals like are in this bill, they arrested his a**. When will the Feds come for O'bama, Reid and Pelosi for the deals they made.

If this bill is going to kill the Democrats forever, the rethuglicans best bet would be to stand aside and let it pass. Then, when the Dem are consigned to the scrap heap of history, they can repeal it. But the rethug opposition only shows that it will be popular and that Dems can use it against rethugs come election day. This just pints out that rethugs are more interested in winning elections than helping Americans, loser scumbags that they are.

Hey darkwater - You don't even know what a Nazi is, but I suspect you could become one.

I wonder if Lloyds of London will insure they are right.

For those 50 and over, this bill will be our death. Will be no health care for us, or anybody that has a serious pre-existing condition. And the Government will get to say who lives and dies. Sounds like NAZI GERMANY all over again. Thanks for nothing Dumbocrats. Oh, that's right you will not be saved either. How's that for poetic justice.

Posted by: Darkwater | March 18, 2010 2:29 PM

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here's hoping your current policy covers mental disorders.
You sound paranoid and delusional, not to mention completely clueless.

typical teabagger.

I see the cartel issued marching orders and like good little useful idiots, they complied and here they are with their brilliant contributions:

(nothing)

lil baby ter-ter:

over 3 trillion dollars is the estimate the banks received and this figure includes credit extentions, etc. from the federal reserve bank.

the total costs of the ongoing pointless wars are way beyond your figure of one trillion. you have not figured the medical care for the severely damaged young people who will require continual care.

for the sake of not wanting to nit pick with you, even one trillion in waste and fraud alone would more than pay for healthcare reform but the simple fact is you do not care about the 47+ million Americans without medical access or insurance.

Don't worry folks, the rest of the civilized world is laughing at the US. Listening to you pug idiots like darkwanker and others sure makes Homeland Securities prediction about rightwing nuts being the biggest threat sort of real, doesn't it. I'm up in Canada, fully enjoying my "socialized healthcare", my socialized robust economy, and watching the US disolve into a 3rd world country.

Watch out for that second dip in the recession.....I hear it's a doozy.

Let's see what the Democrats left out. $350 billion for Doctors Fix. $54 billion for Social Security that money has to come from somewhere since they are taking it from Social Security. $36 billion from Medicare's long-term health care coverage that money has to come from somewhere to cover the program. Those last two are per year. They also left off four years of service that we will be paying for but not receiving. They also left out how much it will cost each state. The other day I posted 34 Atty. Gen. are waiting to go to court if this bill passes, I was wrong there are 36. They have sent a letter to Pelosi that if she uses the slaughter rule they will sue on that alone. Will the liberals commit political suicide as America watches, we will see this Sunday. And then if they do pass it November is going to be better than Christmas this year.

Independent and Free

I wish you would post where you are getting your numbers from about the Iraq war. Being ex-military I am pervy to certain websites that are for veterans. And the figures we have for the Afghanistan and Iraq wars are in the mid-900 billion dollar range. With your numbers we would be using golden bullets and dining with fine china.

You all forgot about one thing, even Michael Muskal and Noam N. Levey left this out... The CBO score... doesn't include the Dr payout of $400B which now brings this up to $1.34T to the score over 10 years.
Kill the bill!!

I made a few mistakes in my other post, here are the corrections;

I posted $350 billion for Doctors Fix, it should be $370 billion.
I've posted $54 billion from Social Security it should have been $70 billion.
I posted $36 billion for Medicare's long-term care program it should have been $72 billion.

I should also point out that most of the savings that the Democrats are touting had nothing to do with healthcare. They are getting the savings from student loan reform that is why they tied it to the healthcare bill. And this student loan reform had to be added to the Senate's version of the healthcare bill or they could not have used reconciliation. The CBO must follow rules given to them by the leadership they not deviate from the rules given them. And that is where the trickery by the liberal leadership began. Basically the rules given to the CBO are like accounting by Enron courtesy of the liberal leadership.

I read all of these posts from the boys and girls of the Republican-Libertarian-T.Baggers and I am wondering if Phil Gramm wasn't misquoted. Maybe, what he really said was; Our, The Republican Party, in all of its various disguises, is The Party of Whiners. That would make more sense, to me, but what do I know !!? I only dismissed "Crash" McCain and "Failin" Palin, immediately and voted for President Obama and Vice-President Biden. A choice I hope to replay in 2012, but that is all in God's Hands.
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

lil baby ter-ter posted:
(snip)

Cost of the bank bailout, which by the way BO voted for is currently under a Trillion dollars Estimates are that those cost could be much higher - that is primarily due to Fannie and Freddie - the gov't sponsored entities.(end)
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Care to revise your estimate, ter old buddy ?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2rzjENZQV5k

"The Federal Reserve Board must disclose documents identifying financial firms that might have collapsed without the largest U.S. government bailout ever, a federal appeals court said.

The U.S. Court of Appeals in Manhattan ruled today that the Fed must release records of the unprecedented $2 trillion .."

Did you get that, ter-ter ?
2 TRILLION and that doesn't include credit extentions.

That bankster bailout could have funded the most liberal of healthcare reform proposals many times over.

Still Writing Wrong,

What is it 30 million uninsured or 47 million uninsured? Can you flatliners get your "facts" striaght?

If you want to use an estimate of the total cost of Three Trillion for the war on terror and another Three Trillion for the bailouts (largest recipients are those Democratic strongholds of Fannie and Freddie), that's fine. It is still a drop in the bucket to total cost of Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. The cost of the wars and the bailouts will also be a drop in the bucket against the total cost of ObamaCare.

" Terry ", you wouldn't know a fact if you made it up !! What am I posting, you do make them up !! Keep on posting, though, I always need a good laugh !! Go get them, tiger !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

DUMP TRUCK FITZ,

Which is it then 30 million uninsured or 47 million uninsured?

SUPPORT SMALLER GOV'T. DUMP THE DEMOCRAT-SOCIALIST-FLATLINERS.

To all of you on the left AND right: I want all of you fools OUT. The right consists of greedy hypocrites who pretend they want "reform" but DO NOTHING and allow huge corporations (oil, banks, insurance) to screw us. With respect to illegals, the right wants their slave labor and will never do anything to deal with 30 million invaders. The left consists of a bunch of idiots who can't perform basic math. As long as "someone" pays for their bleeding heart corrupt asses, they vote for any giveaway to any minority group and could give a damn about how it will bankrupt America. With respect to illegals, the left figures if they let enough invaders into the country and then give them amnesty, they can buy their votes for future generations. Why bother with American votes when you can purchase the votes of invaders with free giveaways and amnesty. It's time for everyone one of you sleeping fool independents to rise the hell up and throw them all out!!!!!