Obama's final health push: 'Up or down'

I love how the Repugs are all of a sudden acting like an Up or Down recociliation vote is the same thing as the 'nuclear option'. They want to confuse people because they know that they have used reconciliation more than 3x the amount of times the Dems ever have and the Repugs used it on huge unpaid for things like Bush's tax cuts for the rich and MedicareD

UP OR DOWN VOTE!!!

THE COST OF FOLLOWING THE REPUBLICANS ADVICE AND DOING NOTHING ON HEALTH CARE!

"Suppose Congress and President Obama fail to overhaul the system now, or just tinker around the edges, or start over, as the Republicans propose — despite the Democrats’ latest and possibly last big push that began last week at a marathon televised forum in Washington."

"Then 'my health care' stays the same, right?"

"Far from it, health policy analysts and economists of nearly every ideological persuasion agree. The unrelenting rise in medical costs is likely to wreak havoc within the system and beyond it, and pretty much everyone will be affected, directly or indirectly."

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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/weekinreview/28abelson.html?ref=weekinreview
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About time we get this through...I just read this morning that companies are dropping insurance because it is too expensive and not telling employees. You only find out when you need services and find you are no longer covered.

This was inevitable. Obama's bi-partisan meeting last week was nothing more that a charade. If the dems do this, they had better possess some marketable skills, because their legislating days will be numbered. They work for us-they were elected to represent their constituents; and they can be replaced if they refuse to fulfill their obligation.

As I recall, when Republicans wanted to use reconciliation (a strictly budgetary procedure) to bypass Dem filibusters of judicial nominees, Senate Dems trooped to the well one after another and decried the procedure as improper, and claimed that circumventing the filibuster would sound the deathknell for our republican form of government. What changed since then? Just curious.

Health care has to be cheaper across the board no matter if people or the government pays. Right now when you compare US GDP% spent on health care it is 40% plus more for Americans, which is ridiculous.
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http://www.bristolpress.com/articles/2010/02/27/news/doc4b89d7902d11d323220394.txt
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Interesting how the Rethugs have switched the argument to process (reconciliation) over policy (health care reforn). The Rethugs know people will like health care reform, that's why they've spent so much time and corporate money lying about it.

obama is a hypocrite, on top of being dishonest, corrupt and incompetent.
Go ahead and pass this baloney, it'll give the republicans something to do for 2 years after November elections. Then we can repeal it all in 3 years when obama is gone and taking his walk of shame as the worst president ever!
Don't forget to cheat on your taxes like all of obama's buddies, seems like the democrat's way of doing things.

Stioll campaigning - still stumping to the public - WHY?

Because our president knows taht the American Public DOES NOT WANT THIS GARBAGE.

Sure, there are Congressional sheeple taht will follow this piper right off the cliff but there are also many Democrat sthat know they will be TOAST in theupcoming elections if they back this tripe.

The blame Republican game is such a pathetic piece of political poo that it's beginning to make those tossing it out smell funny!

Hey there dummycrat - Bush is gone my child and just because your uncle beats your aunt daily doesn't make it OK for you to beat your wife, does it? I guess it does huh - ouch!

Right an up or down vote, just like all the up and down votes that President Bush wanted. You Dems are a real piece of work. Force feed this bill to the American public at your own risk. It looks like come 2010 the unemployment will be going back up over 10%. The Dems better start working on their resumes.

Obama continues his war against the American people in a race to ram as many of his socialist schemes down our throats as possible before we eliminate more of his socialist Democrat foot soldiers in November. Consider that a recent Gallop poll found that 53 percent of Democrats have a "positive view" of socialism. 53 PERCENT!? My God. Wake up, folks, Obama and the socialist Democrats are not our friends.

What's with all those people in lab coats? Did they open a Clinique Counter in the White House?!

Two BIG thumbs down for this garbage program!

Obama is a disgrace. He actually thinks he's going to steal 1/6 of the private economy to fund his nanny state utopia and wealth redistribution dreams. New Jersey. Virginia. Massachusetts. The backlash against Obama and Democrats is only just beginning.

NO!

BO can't just put lipstick on a pig and expect everyone to ignore the fact that the window dressing doesn't change the stinkin pile of doo the healthcare bill is.

We the people don't want, and simply can't afford this POS.

During the summit didn't Obama get his nose out of joint at Cantor for having the 2700 page bill on the table and using it as a prop? Well, it looks like the President didn't mind pulling out his props today. Just one question, did they bring their own coats this time or did the White House provide them again?

The usual DNC Swamp treatment of an issue, with Democrats quoted 10 times as much as Republicans.

I wonder if this is another one of Obama's staged photo ops with people in lab coats that aren't even doctors.

Well, Obama let Burris buy his Senate seat and Dirty Dick Durbin didn't care either. It is no surprise that Obama does not want to honor the will of the people on such a huge bill that could bankrupt America. This bill could end up killing poor people! This bill could destroy the United States! And a corrupt Illinois Democrat will do it by cheating! No wonder Illinois is bankrupt with high unemployment. Our Democrats can destroy anything they touch! Schools are a mess; child murders by drug gangs; conventions driven out of the state - Chicago Democrats, we thank you for your incompetence!

When is this bozo going to address the real problem with healthcare, the cost's driven from the hospitals and doctors. Just like he blames Bush for everything thats wrong in the world today, he blames insurance companies for all that is wrong with health care. Insurance companies raise their premiums based on what they have to pay out. That is driven by the medical community. Why does it cost $800 - $1200 for lab work for a simple physical? Why does it cost $50 for a bottle of Tylenol in a hospital? Why does a hospital room cost more than a hotel room? Answer these questions, fool, before you blame everyone else.

Today marks the 35th time Obama has given a speech or major remarks on his hideous health care "reform" scam. And polls show the public hates it more today than a year ago. In fact, the only thing less popular than ObamaCare is reconciliation, which is why Obama didn't even have the guts to utter the word today. This is a sham and a fraud and the American public knows it.

We the people don't want, and can't afford the BO plan!

Call or write all of your senators and representatives immediately!

Let them know their jobs are at risk.

If congress goes nuclear and rams this pile of doo down our throats, then we the people need to respond in kind!

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We the people don't want, and can't afford the BO plan!Call or write all of your senators and representatives immediately!Let them know their jobs are at risk.If congress goes nuclear and rams this pile of doo down our throats, then we the people need to respond in kind!
Posted by: joe | March 3, 2010 3:58 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You mean cram legislation through without paying for it....like the way your Repug heroes did with MedicareD and their Tax Cuts for the rich? "You the people" didn't have a problem with it when the Repugs were in power. And by the way, this HCR bill is going to DECREASE health care spending, you idiot.

"Reconciliation has, in general, been a Republican endeavor. Political scientist Joshua Tucker looked at the 19 times reconciliation was used between 1981 and 2005, and found that 14 of them were Republican initiatives. If you extend that analysis out to 2008, then 16 of 21 reconciliation bills were Republican".

"That brings us up to the present. But now, Republicans are arguing that reconciliation has never been used for major legislation, and so any attempts to use the process to modify the health-care reform bill would be a sharp break with precedent. That's wrong on two counts."
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http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/a_reconciliation_primer.html
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Fantastic! Let's get it done before our premiums in Illinois go up by 39%!

As I understand it, the "benefits" of this health care proposal don't take effect until 2014. What's the rush Mr. President? Oh, that's right, the taxes start immediately.

Health care reform will be popular, which is the real reason why Republicans oppose it. Republicans also opposed Social Security and Medicare back when they were first created by the Dems.
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http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/02/11/disaffected-public-still-sides-with-obama-more-than-the-republic/
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And the Right Wing Noise Machine (Faux News, Druggy Limbaugh etc) is purposely confusing the Wingnut rubes by using the phrase 'Nuclear Option' when discussing the Dems use of 'Reconciliation'....again.
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http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/p/o/politicaltruths/2010/02/rachel-maddow-expose-gop-lie-o.php?ref=recdc
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Here's 2 quotes of Obama, denouncing what he now supports.

Obama Interview with the Concord Monitor 10/9/07

"You’ve got to break out of what I call the sort of fifty plus one pattern of presidential politics. Maybe you eke out a victory of fifty plus one. Then you can’t govern. You know, you get Air Force One, there are a lot of nice perks, but you can’t deliver on healthcare. We are not going to pass universal health care with a fifty plus one strategy."

Center for American Progress Conference 7/12/06

"Those big-ticket items: fixing our health care system. You know, one of the arguments that sometimes I get with my fellow progressives, and some of these have flashed up in the blog communities on occasion, is this notion that we should function sort of like Karl Rove where we identify our core base, we throw ’em red meat, we get a fifty plus one victory. See, Karl Rove doesn’t need a broad consensus because he doesn’t believe in government. If we want to transform the country, though, that requires a sizeable majority."

I can cite more.
Remind me why anyone believes anything this man says.

It is a shame that there can be no rational discussion of this issue in Congress. Few would argue that there are reforms that need to be made to address access to health care and its ever increasing costs. However, the current far left driven bills focused on increased bureaucracy and income redistribution seem to do little to address the root problems.

Polls overwhelmingly and increasingly want Congress to improve the current healthcare system, not implement a massive new healthcare entitlement. No one truly believes ObamaCare will be cost effective and deficit neutral. The history of such entitlements tells us otherwise.

But the course has been chosen. Today the administration has announced its intention to force its will upon the people through the little used parliamentary procedure of reconciliation. For over 200 years our system of checks and balances have protected the American people from political excess. Forcing major social legislation of this magnitude through Congress without popular or political consensus smacks of totalitarianism ... or, if you prefer – the tyranny of the majority. Medicare wasn’t done this way; Social Security wasn’t done this way.

The use of the reconciliation procedure for purposes other than budgetary was never intended by Congress. If successful, it will only result in a bad bill being passed at any cost just to save bad policy. More importantly, it will establish a precedent that will surely lead to future legislative excesses. I am certain that the people of Venezuela have had second thoughts about President Hugo Chavez who they thought was acting in their best interests when he made a similar power grab.

In addition to Obama’s attempts to ram jam healthcare against us, here is yet more bad news at the hands of Obama on the way for Americans. This is from the New York Times Dot Earth blog: "To meet the Obama administration’s targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions, researchers say Americans may have to experience a sobering reality: gas at $7 a gallon. To reduce carbon dioxide emissions in the transportation sector 14 percent from 2005 levels by 2020, the cost of driving must simply increase, according to a forthcoming report by researchers at Harvard’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs. The 14 percent target was set in the Obama’s Environmental Protection Agency budget for fiscal 2010."
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Obama will crush Americans under his heaping mound of debt before he will give up his hardcore leftist ideology. Obama is a big problem.

Obama and the Democrat leadership has just declared war on those Americans who care about low cost quality health care and lowering the national debt. Whomever votes for this bill must be voted out in November. Then if it passes we can discuss ways to repeal or de-fund it.

From cnn.com on May 24 2005. Harry Reid on filibustering:

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid later welcomed the deal and indicated Democrats would continue to filibuster Myers and Saad, likely dooming their nominations.

"This is really good news for every American," the Nevada Democrat told reporters. "Checks and balances have been protected."

Reid said the agreement sent President Bush, Vice President Cheney and what he called the "radical arm of the Republican base" the "undeniable" message that "abuse of power will not be tolerated

Vote this pile of horse manure down already. Adding on 3 line items to useless socialist garbage makes the bill worse. No insurance for 25+ million illegals, pass tort reform, and force insurance companies to comete is the way to start a new bill. Then cut out payments for elective proceedures, like abortion. If you allow abortions, you have to allow liposuction and nose jobs.

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Here's 2 quotes of Obama, denouncing what he now supports. I can cite more.
Remind me why anyone believes anything this man says. Obama Interview with the Concord Monitor 10/9/07

Posted by: Equal time | March 3, 2010 4:23 PM
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I can cite one HUGE example of what Pres Obama DIDN"T know in 2007.

REPUBLICANS SET FILIBUSTER RECORD AFTER OBAMA IS ELECTED PRESIDENT.
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http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/03/02/republican-obstruction-at-work-record-number-of-filibusters/
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You were also one of the right wing clowns who believed that Iraq had WMD's. Try again, girlfriend.

Obama once said lets pass this bill and see what happens in November thats what elections are for. If November is a bllodbath for the democrats does that mean we can start over. HELL NO!!!!! By that time all the democrats that have walked the plank they will be shark food and Dear Leader can care less because the little baby would have gotten his way.

This is one of the greatest achievements by government in my lifetime. I am so proud to be an American and affirm the values in which we all believe, caring for all.

Obama and his followers lie. Social security and Medicare were passed with large number of republican votes, and a dozen democrats in the Senate voted for Bush's tax cuts. Obama, Pelosi, Reid are all on video record speaking against the plan that Obama proposes now.

The President said vote up or down every idea and option has been explored.

Not True the President has buried the Public Option that works.

All 300 million people in the US could begin receiving Free Public Option health care this year and it would save $1trillion dollars every year from the $2.6trillion spent last year.

National sales taxes instead of insurance could pay for free Public Option healthcare for everyone who wants to use it no restrictions, no insurance, no copay’s, free period.

Only a Free Public Option which eliminates insurance companies and uses sales taxes to pay for care, and eliminates the for profit private care providers by using government hospitals, can produce these drastic cost savings.

Veterans Government Health Care is producing better health outcomes for Vets than civilian patients are receiving anywhere else in the country, at any price, including Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, Medicare, anywhere and VA’s costs are a fraction of private care’s.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0501.longman.html

Who cares what these Republicans are writing. They are the MINORITY party and therefore you should sit back and take it like a man! The majority of the American people, a lot who work everyday and don't have time to attend teabag parties, voted for the Democrats. All you guys left the American people is a deficit, two unfinished wars, unpopularity overseas, unisured Americans, a big donut hole in Medicare prscription drugs, and a bad economy. Is that what the American people want? The republicans have nothing to offer. And when the Tea Party candidates run against the moderate Republican candidates, there is NO WAY you will regain the House and Senate. There is no majority without MODERATE REPUBLICANS.

Hmm, the majority of posts are anti-healthcare. Seems like the tide really is turning against Obama.

Health Care is a RIGHT, as guaranteed under the general welfare clause of the Constituion. It is about time we WAKE UP like most of the civilized world. We can no longer allow private industry to determine who should live and who should die. The private insurance companies are the only real "death panels".

Please note, this is not an attack on health care providers. (doctors, nurses, etc.) Most of whom favor universal health care. As does most of America. (Despite what Faux news and the right wing controlled media tell you)

DOWN!!!!

Social Security? Bankrupt.
Medicare? Bankrupt.
Postal Service? Bankrupt.
Obamacare? What could possibly go wrong?

Up or Down vote on the entitlement that will bankrupt this country. GO for it dems. Just remember, what passes thru reconciliation, can be repealed in 2013 via reconciliation.

Sure! Let's add to the national debt! My kids need a goal; to unbury themselves from this P.O.S.! It's like Wilma and Betty are shopping. CHARGE IT!!!

I worked for a company where the management had "Cadillac" coverage and the average worker had a lesser plan. The insurance company came out with a new "cafeteria style" plan for ALL the workers--HR stating no ones life is more important than another's. Of course managers were terrified they'd lose their "perk" and didn't think they should be on the same level as the people they supervised. The plan let people pick what was important to their family and employees could choose what "fit" their situation. Long story short, everyone was happier including the managers because the money was targeted to their own situation and family/personal needs, not what an HR person thought you should have. I see the same thing with the health care bill. People are afraid that things will be too radical a change from what they are used to. People need o give it a chance. Let us not impede progress....things have to change with the times.

Sure! Let's add to the national debt! My kids need a goal; to unbury themselves from this P.O.S.! It's like Wilma and Betty are shopping. CHARGE IT!!!
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I would fully be there with you, but the Republicans did the same thing when they had both the Senate, House, adn the White House. Explain to me why I should trust the Republicans? Maybe a Libertarian, but not a Republican.

"Hmm, the majority of posts are anti-healthcare. Seems like the tide really is turning against Obama."

Posted by: bob | March 3, 2010 5:08 PM

LOL. Yeah, there's not a more scientific method of discerning the public mood than a bunch of nitwits ranting on the Internet. Not to mention that most of them are paid Republican/conservative schills that come on here to lie and muddy the waters.

Don't know why everyone thinks this thing will be available from the get go if it passes. The taxes will be implemented immediately, but most of the benefits won't even start for 4 or more years down the road. They need the tax revenue to pay for this plan and want to bet when they get to the point where the plan kicks in - the money will be gone just like that Social Security "Lock Box" that turned up empty.

Syl is really full of it. Health care can never be a right unless you do it yourself. It can never be a right if you require someone else to do something for you. Once you start trying to define things like your are . Syl, then I can define anything I want as a right and force you to provide it to me. Syl also misunderstands the "general welfare" clause. It does not authorize the federal government to do anything it wants as long as it can claim "general welfare".

I would love to see Syl's reference to support "Most of whom favor universal health care". Syl needs to understand supporting general "universal health care" is substantially different than supporting this particular legislation. Syl also needs to understand my doctors, who I doubt are out of the mainstream, detest both Obama and the health care legislation.

In short, Syl is your basic idiot.

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Hmm, the majority of posts are anti-healthcare. Seems like the tide really is turning against Obama."

Posted by: bob | March 3, 2010 5:08 PM
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Gee, I wonder why there are so many anti health care posts on here?.....hmmm.....duh...

Don't ever say the media doesn't have a right wing agenda again, Bobby Mobbie. Your crap is golden on here.

It's the HAIL MARY PASS for a loser.. if it goes through he is STILL a loser..and it will be repealed post haste.. Obama owes Andy Steirn and the payment is health care.. As Andy put it Politics is a business investment and we expect to be paid.. and guess what the UNION MEMBERS do NOT want this bill and there will be NO CARD check in November.. LOL.. BTW.. unlike the PROGRESSIVE TROLLS those that don't agree with Obama unfortunately don't get paid for posting..

“ …. You mean cram legislation through without paying for it....like the way your Repug heroes did with MedicareD and their Tax Cuts for the rich?”
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Posted by: Hypocrites - thy name is Republicans | March 3, 2010 4:10 PM
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Are you telling us that you actually believe that Obamacare is going to be paid for? You are vastly more gullible than I had ever imagined possible. They are planning to substantially raise taxes NOW for a system that won’t start until 2014. Anyone can make things look paid for using that technique. The problem arises in later years after the accumulated startup money is spent. After that, Obama care will significantly contribute to yearly deficits. Go look up what the CBO has to say about it.
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In other words, Obama plans to kick the problem down the road and allow the next President or two to confront the problem of how to continue to fund Obamacare and reduce deficit spending. And he’s doing this just to give the false appearance of looking like a fiscally responsible people.
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And, even then, his phony aura of fiscal responsibility depends on the assumption that Obamacare will come close to staying within budget. Smart people are skeptical of the federal government’s track record on this heading. With Medicare and Social Security hanging on the Democrats’ trophy wall, it’s not hard to be skeptical. Either one will bankrupt us from the financial obligations to retirees if Obama doesn’t bankrupt us first. To be sure, Social Security obligations to retiring baby-boomers will bury us in many trillions of dollars in debt. That is, unless SS is abolished, severely curtailed, and/or given added funds through a substantial tax increases. You complain about Republicans and their excess spending, and you are right in doing so. But Republicans don’t hold a candle to the disasters looming on the horizon caused by all these social welfare programs cooked up by the Democrats. Not a candle.

PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! PUBLIC OPTION! MAKE IT HAPPEN!!

And here - http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/33866.html - the rethuglicans state very clearly that they run campaigns by playing on people's fears. Here's your smoking gun folks. Rethuglicans are playing Americans for idiots. Then again, when you listen to some folks, you know why they believe the RNC. They are idiots.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/33866.html

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/33866.html

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/33866.html

I posted extra links so you can send them to all your friends (LOL!). Get the word out. RNC hates America. Treats Americans like idiot pawns. Wants only power and will stoke hate and fear to get it. RNC - party of FUD.

Hmm, the majority of posts are anti-healthcare. Seems like the tide really is turning against Obama.

Posted by: bob | March 3, 2010 5:08 PM

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you mean the sudden but not unpredictable onslaught of the useful idiots of the insurance cartel ?

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Posted by: syj | March 3, 2010 5:22 PM
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Is that a new batch of Kool-Aid you’ve been sampling, or have you just augmented the old stuff with more chemicals?
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A person with a “right” to something from the government has the ability to sue to enforce that right. As such, the proposed health care legislation would be a pointless exercise if you already had a “right” to health care. You could simply sue the government to make it pay your medical bills. The fact that you can’t do this, and that you need a massive health care bill, demonstrates the lack of any “right” to health care in a rather pointed fashion.
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On a more basic level, a “right” – i.e. the privilege to demand something from the government or others, even against their wishes - is normally grounded in the common law, the constitution, or some explicit statute. We know you don’t have a statutory right to health care because they are still trying to pass one. The right to health care was (and is) unknown to the common law; so you don’t get it from that either. Furthermore, the Constitution makes no mention of a duty on the part of the government to provide such care. To be sure, the so-called “general welfare clause” that you cite, even when distorted by progressive Democrats, does not MANDATE health care as a matter of right, and never has.

It's time for the Democrats to pass this bill and get it done. Most of the arguments against it here are inchoate at best and vile at worst. They have nothing to do with health care and everything to do with hoping President Obama will fail. Once this bill passes and the vast majority realize the subsequent improvement in their quality of life, the naysayers will be tuning into Fox news to find out what they are to blindly be against next.

Mr. Obama, won't you please leave us alone?

Won't you quit talking?

Please. Chill.

Have a smoke and a beer.

“. . . . Just remember, what passes thru reconciliation, can be repealed in 2013 via reconciliation.”
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Posted by: Terry | March 3, 2010 5:30 PM
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If it passes, it can be repealed sooner, too. The sooner the better.

Sure! Let's add to the national debt! My kids need a goal; to unbury themselves from this P.O.S.! It's like Wilma and Betty are shopping. CHARGE IT!!!

Posted by: Mike | March 3, 2010 5:34 PM

Funny, I didnt hear you complaining when Bush created the largest government and deficit in history prior to Obama. Was it because you didnt care about your kids future then? Just asking. And for the record, the US has had a defict for the past 40 years excluding '98, 99. 00 and 01. Tell me, how many of those 40 years were occupied with a Republican President? Here I'll do the home work for you 25 compaired to 15 Democratic Presidents. And dont go telliing me Congress is to blame, as I recall the President signs the bills not Congress!

Finally we are slapping the lazy corrupt do nothing republicans back into their place on this issue. Look forward to slapping them around more on other issues important to the leadership of this country.

Not only will Obama and the Democrats be bypassing the Republicans they will be bypassing the majority of the American voters. Their arrogance will cost them dearly at the ballot boxes. It is known that if you are so idiotic to not know your own history you are just stupid enough to repeat it and it would appear that the Democrats are about to repeat it. In 1854 the Kansas Nebraska act was passed by the controlling political party at that time. The passage of that one act did two things that changed America to this day. It led in no small part to the Civil War. And it destroyed one political party completely and led to the rise of another in less than two presidential election cycles. And today Obama is showing himself as been one of the biggest hypocrites in DC, here he is in his own words;

http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-american-agenda-flashback-dems-should-not-pass-healthcare-with-a-50-plus-1-strategy

the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts, which were passed under reconciliation and increased the deficit by $1.7 trillion during his presidency, were "substantive legislation." The 2003 dividends tax cut could muster only 50 votes. Vice President Dick Cheney had to break the tie. Talk about "ramming through."

Reconciliation is hardly uncommon. It was created by the 1974 Budget Act, and was first used in 1980 by REAGAN. Reconciliation has been used successfully 19 times and vetoed three times; 16 times Republican-controlled Senates used it.

It's been used for major legislation. President George W. Bush's 2001 and 2003 tax cuts were considered this way. So were the 1996 welfare overhaul and the 1997 Balanced Budget Act.

Since 1970 (Nixon) there have only been 4 years where we did not run a deficit. No Reagan had 8 years of debt busting deficits. It was Bill Clinton whose last 4 years were balanced budget and SURPLUS. W's first act? To emulate Reagan's, keep the country in defict so we can blame socialism tactic and cut taxes for all the RICH to the tune of 1.7T deficit. Get off yer high horses HYPO's

While you were eating your cheap-as-you-can-find fattening Wednesday night supper, Obama was attempting to buy votes by wining, dining, smoking, and spending our tax dollars to BUY VOTES for the fiasco known as "health care reform." The attendees are listed below. He also bought a vote by naming the brother of an "undecided" Dem. as judge to circuit court. CORRUPTION AT ITS BEST.

Jim Matheson, D-Utah, voted "NO" last summer for so-called "health care" bill; this past fall he was "undecided"...tonight he is being wined and dined by Obama...who announced the following at a White House dinner party:

Obama just named his brother, Scott Matheson, as judge to circuit court - an apparent attempt to BUY Jim Matheson's health care vote.

Contact the following Dems - who need to hold FIRM and VOTE NO against the health care fiasco:

CONGRESSMAN LINCOLN DAVIS
202-225-6831

CONGRESSMAN HERSETH SANDLER
202-225-2801

CONGRESSMAN FRANK KRATOVIL
202-225-5311

CONGRESSMAN BETSY MARKEY
202-225-4676

CONGRESSMAN JIM MATTHESON
202-225-3011

CONGRESSMAN HEATH SHULER
202-225-6401

CONGRESSMAN JOHN TANNER
202-225-4714

CONGRESSMAN SCOTT MURPHY
202-225-5614

CONGRESSMAN JASON ALTMIRE
202-225-2565

CONGRESSMAN BOYD
202-225-5235

Contact these Dems and tell them to stand FIRM in opposition to the health care fiasco.

Tara Reid,

Have you been listening to or reading Mike's comments over the past nine years? Do you know for a fact that he didn't complain about the deficits under President Bush? Or is this just more flatliner dribble from the non-model?

How many of those surpluses had a democratic Congress? ZERO.

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Posted by: Deficit Man | March 3, 2010 8:41 PM
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Sorry, but you’ve swallowed a lot of hogwash.
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A “balanced budget” and a “surplus,” in normal parlance, mean the income from tax revenues have paid for the budget’s expenditures with some left over. One necessary expenditure in a “balanced” budget is a sufficient payment of the debt service that has come due so that the accrued interest on the debt doesn’t increase the debt. Contrary to your claim, Bill Clinton did not manage to accomplish these feats.
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Go the Treasury Department’s web site and you will see that all of Bill Clinton’s last four budgets increased the debt. There was only one year when his budget came close to balancing a budget, but that budget still added $17 billion to the debt. Mind you, the fact that he almost managed to balance a budget had nothing to do with his fiscal management skills. He had a conservative Congress at the time, and the federal government had an increase in tax revenues during those years. Were it not for those two factors, he would likely have kept running deficits just like he had during his first four years in office. Thus the claim of Clinton’s “balanced budgets” and “budget surpluses” all go to prove that Democrats: (1) use fuzzy math, (2) aren’t strictly truthful, (3) like to take credit for circumstances that aren’t of their own doing, and (4) (as in your case) have gullible constituents.
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The last President to actually balance a budget and decrease the debt was Dwight D. Eisenhower. Just thought you’d like to know that.

And here - http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/33866.html - the rethuglicans state very clearly that they run campaigns by playing on people's fears. (snipped)

Posted by: I_heart_Schadenfreude | March 3, 2010 6:32 PM

~~~~
the r-cons have nothing else and besides, fear sells. The r-cons have no platform or solutions to that which ails America, so they drag out the fear card, and it works for them. Low information voters with bigoted tendencies is where they'll get their "support".

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Contact these Dems and tell them to stand FIRM in opposition to the health care fiasco.

Posted by: Mary Smith | March 3, 2010 8:47 PM
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To late Skippy,

Your Teabagger opposition in support of the Corporate Health Insurance Industry to stop people from getting affordable health care is now - NULL & VOID!

And the people out there who have been getting sicker and sicker because they don't have health care insurance thank PRESIDENT OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS for all of their hard work on their behalf.

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If it passes, it can be repealed sooner, too. The sooner the better.

Posted by: John W. | March 3, 2010 7:01 PM
--------------------------------

The Health care bill has already passed with a 60 vote super majority. The only thing that's being done in reconciliation is the making of some small adjustments to the original bill.

The Repugs won't be able to repeal it because just like with Social Security and Medicare, by the time they get around to it people will already like what they've got (which is what scares Republicans more than anything else).

I hope the Repugs try to repeal it, it would be a great way for them to tank another election for themselves.

* * * * *
Posted by: Tara Reid (not the model) | March 3, 2010 7:21 PM
.
Yours is really a common refrain, but a rather lame one.
.
What opportunity did I have to really express my ire at the out of control spending by Bush and Congress? If you care to look, you will see that I complained loudly on this blog about Bush, and especially about his failure and refusal to rein in spending. Maybe you think I should have written my Senators and Representative? I did that too. My Senators and Representative are Democrats (Boxer, Feinstein and Honda). To the extent they didn’t agree with Bush, and weren’t spending too much money themselves, my complaints were just so much “preaching to the choir.” I voted against Bush when he ran for a second term. I think that is some expression of my ire.
.
Did you ever notice the relatively low turnout of Republicans and conservative independents during the November ’08 election? A lot of people who would have otherwise voted Republican either stayed home that day or voted for someone other than John McCain. They did so because they couldn’t stand the idea of another four years of the same phony conservatism. I, for one, voted for Bob Barr, the Libertarian candidate. All of this leads me to believe that people like YOU either don’t listen, or aren’t in a position to listen, when conservatives complained about Bush. This is why people like you believe that the Tea Party spontaneously arose out of some Republican plot, rather from the general malcontent of conservatives toward a Republican Party that had stopped representing their interests. The truth is that it was the latter.
.
And, BTW - for the record, every last one of Clinton’s budgets added to the debt. All the bragging about balanced budgets and “surpluses” was just a lot of hooey. If you don’t believe me, look it up yourself. The figures can be found on the Treasury Departments web site.

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How many of those surpluses had a democratic Congress? ZERO.
Posted by: Terry | March 3, 2010 8:57 PM
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Poser Terry,
You can't have it both ways, you can't claim that Bush's spending was the fault of the Dems in congress and then turn around and claim that Clinton's budget surplus only happened because of the Repub congress. This isn't a Faux News.com site where facts are things that Glenn Beck pulls out of his backside and puts up on a chalk board and everybody nods their head in agreement.

In case you haven't noticed, this is America and people have a right to decent health care. The only ones who are squealing in opposition to it are Wingnuts like you who under Bush Republican rule cheerleaded as we spent $Billions on Halliburton, KBR, Triple Canopy, Blackwater, a $Trillion on the Iraq War and Tax Cuts for rich billionaire types - who'd rather spend their money betting against American Businesses in the Stock Market than buy American Goods or providing American Jobs. Is that the kind of "historical wasteful spending" you meant?

The moderate dems in the House don't trust the Senate, and no one trusts Obumbles. Pelosi is losing votes and other dems in the House are playing their cards too close to the vest to tell. One thing is certain...the Dems from conservative districts up for re-election are not going to be falling on a sword for Nancy or Obumbles with less than 8 months until November.

I love watching these nitwit liberals implode.

How many of those surpluses had a democratic Congress? ZERO.

Posted by: Terry | March 3, 2010 8:57 PM

The PRESIDENT signs the bills NOT Congress! And the Republicans DID NOT have a super majority during Clintons term.

Yes the Repugs in congress can claim the surplus, (if you think the
budget is actually controlled by congress.)

But if you take that approach you are agreeing that the Repugs are also responsible for the deficits of Bush.

The vast majority of republican
congressmen who were 'responsible' for Clinton's fiscal surplus, were still there voting on policies under Bush that led from surplus to $1T deficit.

* * * * *
Posted by: HHH | March 3, 2010 11:32 PM
.
The bill is in danger in the House because of a number of differences between the House and Senate versions. The issue of abortion funding represents a divide in the Democrat camp in the House, with Congressman Stupak and Congresswoman Schakowsky representing just one set of warring factions. Similarly, the House bill has a public option and the Senate version doesn’t. There are those in the House who have vowed not to vote for a bill without that feature. And, lest we forget, the House version passed by a rather narrow vote. In which case, they are not simply dealing with a few “minor” issues, and passage of the bill in the House is not exactly certain.
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In any event, no one will see any benefits of a health care bill by 2013. The program is not going to come online until 2014 (which begs the question of why everyone is in such a big hurry to see it pass). Thus, its repeal won’t disappoint satisfied customers as you suggest.

"Health Care is a RIGHT, as guaranteed under the general welfare clause of the Constituion."

Wrongo.

You may want to read that clause again. The clause in the preamble simply states a general purpose of the Constitution but confers no legislative power. The clause in Article I, Section 8 is the one that actually grants Congress power, and that is to exercise THE TAXING POWER to raise revenue, pay debts, and provide for the general welfare "of the United States", not of individual citizens.

I'll say that again: the "general welfare" clause relates ONLY to the exercise of the taxing power, and ONLY to use that power to advance the fiscal interests of the country as a whole, not to provide welfare for individual persons. If it's not a tax/debt issue, e.g. health care, individual mandate, insurance reform, etc., it doesn't fall under the general welfare clause.

Try again, syj.

Triple H.

Can you tell me where in the Constitution it says anything about healthcare being a right. I would figure by now you've been called out so many times you would have changed your nickname. I've also notice that you can never really come back with anything once you are called out but, a childish rant. And about how Halliburton why do you never bring up the contracts and there were many of them given to them without a bid by Clinton. And even Obama has blown a hole in the liberal propaganda about tax cuts for the rich under Bush. And how once the tax cuts are allowed to expire it will basically be a tax increase on the middle class. But you loony liberals just kept drinking the propaganda like it was life blood. Bunch of pathetic fool's.

crooks:
(snipped)
Triple H.

Can you tell me where in the Constitution it says anything about healthcare being a right.

~~~~

same place it mentions food as being a right..nowhere.
Our government has a constitutional obligation to protect it's citizens and America needs protecting against the greedy, mercenary
insurance banksters who make life and death decisions on behalf of Americans on a daily basis by denying coverage and purging their rolls in favor of profits.

Trickled ON HoHoHo,

Let's break the Clinton Presidency into two periods - the first two years with a democratic Congress and the last six years with a GOP Congress. When were the deficits smaller? When was the budget balanced?

Let's do likewise with the Bush Presidency - first six years with a GOP Congress (for 1 1/2 yrs there was a dem Senate) and last two years with Harry and Nancy in charge. Which periods had the smaller deficits? Which period had economic growth?

Tara Reid (not as smart as the model),

The President signs bills, which body does the appropriations start in?

Yes, the GOP does get the blame for the spending under Bush. I guess you'll agree that the dems now get the blame for these current deficits?

Compare the two-sides of the pretty graph and tell me which is better?

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/

I sure hope you and Trickled On never get together and reproduce.

Still Writing Wrong,

"Our government has a constitutional obligation to protect it's citizens and America needs protecting against the greedy, mercenary
insurance banksters who make life and death decisions on behalf of Americans on a daily basis by denying coverage and purging their rolls in favor of profits."

And just where in the constitution is that?